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Random fashion thoughts - Page 7263  

post #108931 of 109053

Of course - that's price dumping.  They manoeuver around brands' regional distribution strategy and MSRP pricing with VAT deductions and aggressive pricing, and specifically target the US, while often aiding customs fraud themselves by writing down value.  I don't think people who profit from fraud and illegal activities are the ones who worry the most from being victims of fraud...

post #108932 of 109053
I suppose it doesn't make sense that my go to store nowadays is in Belfast, while I live in Vancouver, BC.
post #108933 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy View Post

It's a bit more of a pain than than, from what I understand, and (apparently) varies from country to country. 

Around here it's insanely easy. You have to registre your business as import/export, which most shops are anyway and takes 30sec on tax services website.

VAT is a monthly, quarterly or bi yearly thing pending on revenue, you have to fill out a bunch of boxes (5 max) on the same website, purchase, sales in EU, sales outside EU etc., it adds it all up it self and tells you how much you have to pay in VAT that month.

So it's not that difficult for the shops to handle the VAT refund, as it's not a refund per-say.
post #108934 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdl203 View Post
 

Of course - that's price dumping.  They manoeuver around brands' regional distribution strategy and MSRP pricing with VAT deductions and aggressive pricing, and specifically target the US, while often aiding customs fraud themselves by writing down value.  I don't think people who profit from fraud and illegal activities are the ones who worry the most from being victims of fraud...

That's not a fair characterization.  While that is certainly true of certain stores, it's not generally true across the board.   It's not like an EU store suddenly gets better margins because they sell something for less.  Last time I was at a tradeshow, the wholesale prices in euros and in dollars were not different.

 

If you want to blame someone, blame 1) vendors - cartel pricing is illegal and unethical, but a vendor can choose to not sell to a retailer they feel underprices their product or will not abide by their regional distribution strategies - this is not impossible.  Dries van Noten implemented this effectively over a single season,  2) tax authorities for lax enforcement.  I have never asked anyone to lower the marked price for me, or to use a specific shipper with the intent to avoid tarriffs, but I do not feel that it's reasonable to expect anyone except for the governments and perhaps the shippers, to figure out the bill, and 3) retailers.  I buy mostly from stores in the EU and the UK not because product is cheaper, but because, for the most part, I cannot find the products that I want in the US.  In that case, and that is usually the case, the price arguments don't even apply.  

 

Just as an example, it in past little while. I have bought sneakers and hats from overseas stores, at retail price.  And after tarriffs, shipping, etc..., the price compared to the US price was about 10% lower.   That's not enough to make the additional hassle worth it, especially since returns would be prohibitively expensive.  I feel that American retailers buy much more conservatively than European stores, even now.  That may be as result of the insane markdown schedule here, but that is, again, not the fault of overseas retailers, but of US retailers.

post #108935 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy View Post

And after tarriffs, shipping, etc..., the price compared to the US price was about 10% lower.  

That can be a big deal though, depending on the price of the thing you're buying. I don't know if this technically qualifies as price dumping, according to WTO rules or whatever, but in practice, it kind of is. A lot of people on this board will seek out European shops purposely for certain things, because it's cheaper overseas. Common Projects is an easy example. Who buys those from a US store?
post #108936 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy View Post
 

If you want to blame someone...

 

I am not looking to blame anyone, but merely answering why Euro stores are targeting aggressively US consumers, even though it may seem like there could be greater fraud risk.

 

Everyone in the process is acting in their respective best interest, the store, the consumer, etc...   I can't blame any of them.  

 

As you indicate, CBP completely fails at enforcing duties and therefore creates this gaping loophole. Until CBP gets its sh!t together,  as you also correctly indicated, it can only be resolved by the brands themselves - they need to better think about regional marketing and distribution strategies.    Neither the stores profiting from it, or consumers looking for lower prices can solve this. 

post #108937 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post

That can be a big deal though, depending on the price of the thing you're buying. I don't know if this technically qualifies as price dumping, according to WTO rules or whatever, but in practice, it kind of is. A lot of people on this board will seek out European shops purposely for certain things, because it's cheaper overseas. Common Projects is an easy example. Who buys those from a US store?

 

Yeah, I was thinking about the WTO anti-dumping regulations.  Notwithstanding that such an action is highly unlikely to be taken, I don't think that the case for litigation would be particularly strong,

 

Really, I think that US retailers have created a toxic environment for themselves, combined with vendor complacency/laziness/fear, and that while guys like @gdl203 are absolutely right to be pissed off, the industry  as a whole doesn't have a leg to stand on. 

post #108938 of 109053

I'm not really that pissed off really - it's part of the competitive landscape.  US niche retailers have to live with this.

 

I find it odd that you do not understand that it is an unfair competitive advantage though, because it is.    When brands communicate MSRPs, they do it an relatively leveled basis across geographies.  When a European retailer targets US customers with MSRP - 15-20% off as their base price , it starts already off balance... They don't even have to mark it down, and they technically respect the suggested retail price, but in a world where everything is a couple of clicks away, that makes a difference.    Do you remember the arguments that people tried Rick Owens jackets at Atelier but would buy them from Germany because it saved them $500.  Can't blame the customers for doing that, right?  Both stores respect MSRP, right?  Not an unfair competitive advantage?

post #108939 of 109053
The main issue is that it doesn't work both ways, we don't have the same advantages that the americans have buying in Europe have. If it was the case I don't think anyone would be complaining.
post #108940 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Find Finn View Post

The main issue is that it doesn't work both ways, we don't have the same advantages that the americans have buying in Europe have. If it was the case I don't think anyone would be complaining.

Well, if it worked both ways, then there wouldn't be price dumping in the first place.
post #108941 of 109053
Incidentally when conversations like this come up, I find myself compelled to buy something from Greg just in the interests of solidarity. So, like, that's way better than price dumping.
post #108942 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by trafficjam View Post

Incidentally when conversations like this come up, I find myself compelled to buy something from Greg just in the interests of solidarity. So, like, that's way better than price dumping.

 

Sympathy kops !   I'll take them, I have no shame :D

post #108943 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post

Well, if it worked both ways, then there wouldn't be price dumping in the first place.


There would, but on different products, so people selling american owned stuff in the US would win.


We have internal price dumping in Europe, where countries with lower VAT steals customers from countries with higher. Which again affords them to buy bigger bulks and sell it even cheaper.
post #108944 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdl203 View Post
 

I'm not really that pissed off really - it's part of the competitive landscape.  US niche retailers have to live with this.

 

I find it odd that you do not understand that it is an unfair competitive advantage though, because it is.    When brands communicate MSRPs, they do it an relatively leveled basis across geographies.  When a European retailer targets US customers with MSRP - 15-20% off as their base price , it starts already off balance... They don't even have to mark it down, and they technically respect the suggested retail price, but in a world where everything is a couple of clicks away, that makes a difference.    Do you remember the arguments that people tried Rick Owens jackets at Atelier but would buy them from Germany because it saved them $500.  Can't blame the customers for doing that, right?  Both stores respect MSRP, right?  Not an unfair competitive advantage?

The wholesale DDP price is not higher for US retailers than for EU retailers, especially on, say, Japanese goods.  If they were, then yes, okay, I would agree with you that there is a unfair competitive advantage.

 

I think that the MRSP argument here is overstated.  Most vendors don't have a particularly strong MRSP policy.   That certainly is true for a fair number of "forum favorites that are cheaper to buy from Europe than from a US vendor.  Common Projects and Margiela are probably the exceptions.

post #108945 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post


Well, if it worked both ways, then there wouldn't be price dumping in the first place.

Well, it actually happens, but on different products.  I know a lot of Europeans who buy, say, a lot of Converse, from the US, where they are not only cheaper, but there is a lot more choice.  Hey, @gdl203 , maybe it's  time to start targeting French teenagers with the lure of inexpensive sneakers?

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