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Random fashion thoughts - Page 6997  

post #104941 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by accordion View Post
 

 

What about for labels like Cloak and Helmut Lang? Were they still more artisanal than technical? 

Helmut Lang did some interesting technical work, but it wasn't typically in the arena of tailoring, though I remember that he did some kick ass suits.  His contribution was in his application of "Minimalism" broaderly speaking, in the 90s.  He stripped down a lot of garments (see his jean jackets and his military jackets) to their core features (not just functional elements, which is a rather narrow way of looking at minimalism) and made some spectacular garments.  Cloak, imo, was really about the styling.  I like Cloak, but it really was not at the same level as Helmut Lang.

 

A lot of the "artisanal" designers are very intereste and invested in construction and the process of creation, and it is a lot of what they bring to the table, so it's unfair to say that they have "poor" construction, as if it was an afterthought.  I mean, any designer can send things out to a factory, and they can get a garment sewn properly, no problem.  It just isn't what they want.

post #104942 of 109053
agree with Fok. the materials and patterns on that artisanal stuff is often great, or at least interesting, but the stitches holding it all together usually look like they're on the verge of break down. that is part of the charm of a lot of the stuff though. it's built for fashion, not function, like a motorcycle jacket is. actually pretty much anything hand tailored can have issues too. it's common for the hem of a hand stitched blazer to come undone after enough wear. it makes sense if you consider the amount of pressure and number of stitches a machine makes versus someone doing it by hand. but hand tailored clothes have more character than something that looks like it was stamped out of a machine.

on a related note, perhaps the best-made article of clothing I own is a pair of Dior Homme pants. every detail is completely finished. they've got a heavy felt waistband, really intricate folding at the pockets, and all sorts of small details like that throughout. the extra buttons came attached to a piece of leather branded with CD. they go way beyond just having bound seams. feels like a true luxury product. i think in a lot of cases that's what differentiates a luxury brand.

a brand like cloak or HL, in other words your typical designer label, isn't so concerned with that stuff. they may do bound seams and make sure the stitching is straight, but they aren't all doing exceptionally well-constructed stuff.

keep in mind though that cloak pants will likely hold up just as long as Dior Homme pants under normal wear, so it doesn't necessarily need to be a priority. a brand may put more focus on, say, developing interesting patterns or fabrics. yohji, for example, isn't making luxury products (edit: I should say he's not making the same kind of luxury products as, say, Louis Vuitton) but there's just as much consideration given to the garment. he's pretty obsessive about his materials, even considering the warp and weft of a textile. http://www.vam.ac.uk/content/articles/y/processes-techniques/. so a pair of yohji pants may have a pretty normal waistband and pockets, but of course the fabric and a lot of the visual details will be exceptional. brands prioritize different things and that's part of how they define themselves. often it's not about who's better or worse but just their specific take on doing things.
post #104943 of 109053
I don't get why Layer-0 is rarely mentioned in the 'artisanal designers' discussion.
post #104944 of 109053
it's still relatively young and low key.
post #104945 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by notwithit View Post

I want to say that @brad-t has a pretty sweet one from kiryuyrik or something.

Oddly enough, I was browsing Kiryuyrik on Mercury right before you posted this.

On a related note, what .jp stores other than Mercury ship internationally?
post #104946 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Favorite cereal is my wife's granola, which I eat with Greek yoghurt and honey.  It rocks pretty hard, and is good post workout.

None of the "artisanal" designers have ever really impressed with construction, but yeah, MA+ sometimes seems the most perfunctory.  In many of the garments and leather pieces, the things are held together by a loop stitch, and not even one that is particularly well tied off.  A lot of the construction, like that of MA+ and Boris, is extremely interesting, but it's not as though any of the stuff is well made the way a tailored garment from even the lowest end tailoring outfits is well made.  

You ever watch how poorly some of the designers do tailored menswear on Project Runway?  It's incredibly precise and difficult.  I've never seen that type of virtuosity from the artisanal designers, and it's really an unfair comparison.  It's like asking which rock band plays their instruments as well as top flight classical musician, and the answer is "few to none".  But Bob Dylan is not less of a musician because he sings like someone just punched him in the throat and because his ability to play any of his instruments is rudimentary.  

so in general whose construction impressed you for sw&d style clothing
post #104947 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by sinnedk View Post


so in general whose construction impressed you for sw&d style clothing

Companies like Aero and Viberg, who started by building clothing primarily for functional use.  A motorcycle jacket is not gonna do squat if the seams fall apart while you are skidding 50 feet.  Workboot companies build footwear that is meant to be worn all day, day after day, often with bodyweight + on them.  Also, on a worksite or a fire, you are going to kick crap in the course of your day, so the welts have to be strong, etc...

post #104948 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by nahneun View Post

it's still relatively young and low key.
sure, you're right but I don't think that's an issue for a forum about clothes on the internet.
post #104949 of 109053
That feeling, when you're waiting for six different knits to arrive. Well, seven if you ordered one of them in two different sizes...
post #104950 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by qcqc View Post

sure, you're right but I don't think that's an issue for a forum about clothes on the internet.

Unless something is so stand out that it demands attention, a lot of brands get talked about because of their exposure and relative ubiquity, which often comes with age, and which make discussions both more likely and easier.  I have seen the stuff, and it looks... fine?  I just don't see anything that jumps out at me and demands my attention.

 

There are a lot of relatively young brands in this vein.

post #104951 of 109053
i think its pretty simple, people don't have exposure to it like many of the other brands (RO, m.a.+, luc, julius, attachment, carpe diem and even CCP). there's less of a secondary market, especially for the clothes -- which as LA Guy has repeatedly said -- is where most of us buy our "artisanal" shit since paying retail even at discounted euro vatless prices is tough. Doubly true for an unknown commodity you don't have any real experience with especially in terms of fit and there aren't that many folks in your size with that experience you can leverage.

There aren't even that many retail stockists to start with and their buys are usually pretty small/shallow and most don't have any kind of online presence.

Most of us don't like talking about stuff we don't have experience with. I am very interested in a lot of the clothes and it looks great and I'm glad alexandertg is picking stuff up and sharing his experiences, but there isn't that much information out there otherwise even on SZ.
post #104952 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy View Post

You ever watch how poorly some of the designers do tailored menswear on Project Runway?  It's incredibly precise and difficult.  I've never seen that type of virtuosity from the artisanal designers, and it's really an unfair comparison.  It's like asking which rock band plays their instruments as well as top flight classical musician, and the answer is "few to none".  But Bob Dylan is not less of a musician because he sings like someone just punched him in the throat and because his ability to play any of his instruments is rudimentary.  

The cutter for Gieves and Hawkes, Davide Taub, does really imaginative and innovative work in bespoke tailoring (when he's allowed to, anyway -- I imagine most G&H customers want things that are classic and straightforward). I've been trying to get an interview with him, but his schedule is pretty busy. Still, one of the few guys on Savile Row who I think bridges the gap between bespoke tailoring and designer clothing.

AppleMark



post #104953 of 109053
convo just reminded me of that ruling against LV in 2010 where it was decided that their ads showing someone hand stitching a bag were misleading since a lot of the work is done on machines http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/fashion/news/the-handcrafted-louis-vuitton-bags-made-on-sewing-machines-1982968.html

edit: i should add that LV said they did some work on hand sewing machines because it was "more secure and necessary for strength, accuracy and durability"
post #104954 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caveat View Post

Oddly enough, I was browsing Kiryuyrik on Mercury right before you posted this.

On a related note, what .jp stores other than Mercury ship internationally?

Fascinate and Hardi-Vague both do. There aren't many, but proxying is easy. Hit me up via PM with any questions.

Also, wjk makes a nice sleeveless hoodie: http://item.rakuten.co.jp/moteta/wjk21m-sw02/
post #104955 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post

The cutter for Gieves and Hawkes, Davide Taub, does really imaginative and innovative work in bespoke tailoring (when he's allowed to, anyway -- I imagine most G&H customers want things that are classic and straightforward). I've been trying to get an interview with him, but his schedule is pretty busy. Still, one of the few guys on Savile Row who I think bridges the gap between bespoke tailoring and designer clothing.

I like his work.  It's not really "out there" by any designer standards, but some of it is fairly interesting.  It would be interesting to see him work with someone like Rick Owens, who has, in the past, struggled to get his vision across in his tailored pieces.

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