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Random fashion thoughts - Page 6917  

post #103741 of 109053
post #103742 of 109053
Can't watch a video right now, but a good example is the current Shanghai art scene, which is very motivated by social ideas. Really superficial messages (almost teenage angst/ pseudo-Marxist/ anti-capitalism stuff). But they're creative ways to communicate ideas, and frankly, I'd rather attend a show with that kind of art than see another painting from the Renaissance.
post #103743 of 109053
i have no problem with intellectualism in fashion but a lot of times the ideas border on nonsense and the way they're expressed is clumsy. that's really all it comes down to. i'm always happy to hear what the reference points are, especially ones that are visual / narrative / cultural / mood-related.
post #103744 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post

Is that to say that art shouldn't be inspired by bigger intellectual ideas? Just because something isn't as intellectually profound as its inspiration doesn't mean it's not worthwhile. Alexander McQueen's fashion shows had fairly superficial ideas (intellectually), but they were really beautiful ways to communicate a superficial or common idea (e.g. the Highland "rape" show).

(Incidentally, most academic work isn't as good as Blake or Heidegger, so ...)

When I was at Caltech, the administration tried to commission an installation from Richard Serra that would have been placed on the main lawn.  There was widespread protest, and eventually, the project was scrapped.  It was the president's pet project, and he railed against the students, the faculty, essentially everyone.  There were a lot of reasons that the project was scrapped, but for me, the "inspiration" for the project showed zero understanding of science or how scientists work, while purporting to showcase and elevate both of those things, and was just plain embarassing.

 

So, in many cases, yes, maybe some creatives should just let their work speak for itself and STFU.

 

Incidentally, I think that a lot, maybe even most, art, is bullshit.  That goes the same for academic work.  I also think that about 90% of academic papers should never have been published, and that the papers are in print principally so that some fool could get tenure, or bolster their case for tenure, make full professor, etc...

post #103745 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy View Post

So, in many cases, yes, maybe some creatives should just let their work speak for itself and STFU.

A lot of anti-capitalist art is inspired by Marx, but very few artists actually understand Marx. I doubt many have even read Kapital all the way through. But their work inspires a lot of people who may or may not go on to write interesting things about politics, economics, and society.

One can substitute Marx for any other major influential figure. I know less about hard science, but you can take guys like Nietzsche, Locke, Mill, Rousseau etc. The spreading of those people's ideas is often through art or popular culture, simply because few people are going to take the time to read those works.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy View Post

Incidentally, I think that a lot, maybe even most, art, is bullshit.  That goes the same for academic work.  I also think that about 90% of academic papers should never have been published, and that the papers are in print principally so that some fool could get tenure, or bolster their case for tenure, make full professor, etc...

I agree, but I can't think of a better system to produce the kind of intellectual research that the US (mostly) leads in today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pickpackpockpuck View Post

i have no problem with intellectualism in fashion but a lot of times the ideas border on nonsense and the way they're expressed is clumsy. that's really all it comes down to. i'm always happy to hear what the reference points are, especially ones that are visual / narrative / cultural / mood-related.

Again, I think that's inherent in the format. You can't really express an idea in an intellectual profound way without going through the pains of reading and writing. A song, movie, painting, or piece of clothing is always going to be intellectual superficial or "clumsy" because the person creating it doesn't have the liberty to iron out all the nuances through pages and pages of writing. Heidegger's work can't be condensed into a jacket or painting, but it's interesting if someone's art is actually inspired by Heidegger's works.
post #103746 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post


A lot of anti-capitalist art is inspired by Marx, but very few artists actually understand Marx. I doubt many have even read Kapital all the way through. But their work inspires a lot of people who may or may not go on to write interesting things about politics, economics, and society.

One can substitute Marx for any other major influential figure. I know less about hard science, but you can take guys like Nietzsche, Locke, Mill, Rousseau etc. The spreading of those people's ideas is often through art or popular culture, simply because few people are going to take the time to read those works.
I agree, but I can't think of a better system to produce the kind of intellectual research that the US (mostly) leads in today.
Again, I think that's inherent in the format. You can't really express an idea in an intellectual profound way without going through the pains of reading and writing. A song, movie, painting, or piece of clothing is always going to be intellectual superficial or "clumsy" because the person creating it doesn't have the liberty to iron out all the nuances through pages and pages of writing. Heidegger's work can't be condensed into a jacket or painting, but it's interesting if someone's art is actually inspired by Heidegger's works.

I once read an artist statement that read something like "This represents young Marxist protest against materialism in our capitalist society", which didn't make any sense, but I'm sure that the artist had no idea (because I asked her, uncharitably, to clarify.)

 

I am probably going to be attacked for this, but I personally think that artists are at their best when they speak to the human experience, and don't try to comment on some intellectual construct that they typically are not equipped, by nature or education, to understand.  King Lear is powerful because it speaks to pride and hubris and betrayal and regret and madness, things that everyone experiences at some point, in some form.  It would have been very much diminished if Shakespeare had met Marco Polo for some reason, and been "inspired" to shoehorn some half-assed ideas about Confucianism in there.

post #103747 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy View Post

I am probably going to be attacked for this, but I personally think that artists are at their best when they speak to the human experience, and don't try to comment on some intellectual construct that they typically are not equipped, by nature or education, to understand.

I don't understand. With the exception of that sculpture at CalTech you mentioned, aren't the all the intellectuals we've been talking about speaking to the human experience?
post #103748 of 109053
I f***ing hate most programmatic or didactic art, and my default baseline is similar to LA Guy's.
That said, I think if you really pressed me to distinguish didactic from non-didactic art, or art referencing an intellectual construct from art that doesn't, I probably couldn't give you a clear, useful way of making that distinction in a shitty way. It may just be that I dislike art that I experience as programmatic or didactic because it's shitty, clumsy art, which is why I experience it that way. And most art that's interesting to me has some awareness (whether implied or explicit) of its place in history and continuum of art, so it could be argued that there's almost always some sort of intellectual construct. Of course, it may well not be one that reduces nicely to a one-sentence them that can be dropped into a catalog or caption.
post #103749 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy View Post

shoehorn some half-assed ideas about Confucianism in there.

Speaking of which, here's an example:

Isn't wabi sabi as an aesthetic view visually and intellectually interesting? It grows out of Buddhist philosophy.
post #103750 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post


I don't understand. With the exception of that sculpture at CalTech you mentioned, aren't the all the intellectuals we've been talking about speaking to the human experience?

The human experience subjected to analysis using a philosophical model, yes.  My issue with these models, powerful though they are, is that they make trolls of us all.  We don't live in a tidy world, and we are typically not tidy people.  Even the most brilliant philosophers have problems describing specific parts of the human condition adequately, much less explain the whole human experience well.

post #103751 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post

Speaking of which, here's an example:

Isn't wabi sabi as an aesthetic view visually and intellectually interesting? It grows out of Buddhist philosophy.

On a bit of a tangent, I think that the Japanese had a much better PR guy than the Chinese.  My first exposure to this was in martial arts, not fashion. 

 

Doesn't "Tai Otoshi" sound so much more elevated than "Throw him over shoulder and drop him on his fucking head."  

 

I think that in specific cases, in expert hands, analysis of fashion can be interesting.  However, my original point was that artists are typically not the best people to speak to these points.  Critics have their place too.

post #103752 of 109053
I think that also has a lot to do with the languages themselves. Chinese is incredibly intimidating to a non-native speaker because of all the tones and inflections, whereas Japanese and Korean are much easier to pick up. It's incredibly difficult to pick up the subtleties in tonal differences unless you grew up hearing it.
post #103753 of 109053

So, y'all watched any good anime lately?

post #103754 of 109053
Quote:
Originally Posted by fistinyoface View Post
 

So, y'all watched any good anime lately?

Hey, tiny fist face, stop derailing the actual fashion oriented conversation.  

post #103755 of 109053

Not sure if my joke was missed or I'm missing yours.

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