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The Ultimate Vass Porn Thread - Page 587

post #8791 of 12313
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrybrowne View Post

Nice to have you back BTW.

This +1000.

today i'm wearing my Vass Old English 2, U-Last in antique cognac. aportnoy helped me with sizing and care. though my collection remains meager, my feet (if not my wallet) are forever in his debt.
post #8792 of 12313
Quote:
Originally Posted by aportnoy View Post

Interesting perspective/experience Jerry, though far from my own, I must admit.

I think my sentiment for EG is well known around these parts and I have rarely, if ever, been disappointed with their shoes. My experience with Vass has been equally good.

Aesthetics aside, the main difference I see is that EG (and Lobb for that matter) is essentially a factory that produces a relatively large number of shoes per year and has what I would call an assembly-line approach to their production. Vass, on the other hand, is still making shoes in a one-off manner which, by definition, increases the likelihood for defects.

An apt analogy might be...Will Charvet and and Fray have a cleaner stitch than a shirt that is made by hand? Almost certainly. Will the handmade shirt sometimes lose a button or see a stitch come unraveled, again in my experience, almost certainly. This comes along with territory in a handmade article and we can either live with it or not, but to expect cookie cutter perfection (not implying this your expectation Jerry) from a handmade operation will always lead to disappointment.

Vass is a shoe manufacturer that is in the business of taking large OEM orders while producing MTO/RTW shoes for its own stores at the same time. It is not like a workshop that takes one-off orders only.

And as with all manufacturing business, manual labor or not, variability in quality is not only a byproduct of hand work but also a result of cost optimization.

Vass produces good shoes. But they are not tuning for top notch QC like other manufacturers producing shoes for a higher retail price.
post #8793 of 12313
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

Vass is a shoe manufacturer that is in the business of taking large OEM orders while producing MTO/RTW shoes for its own stores at the same time. It is not like a workshop that takes one-off orders only.

And as with all manufacturing business, manual labor or not, variability in quality is not only a byproduct of hand work but also a result of cost optimization.

Care to compare the annual output of Vass vs. EG or Lobb? My guess is that it's 10:1 or greater. Apples and oranges and if you don't understand that, so be it.
post #8794 of 12313
Quote:
Originally Posted by aportnoy View Post



Care to compare the annual output of Vass vs. EG or Lobb? My guess is that it's 10:1 or greater. Apples and oranges and if you don't understand that, so be it.

 



Bingo.
post #8795 of 12313
Gentlemen, I have relished in the opinionated discussion this morning. Here's my two cents. In the early part of the twentieth century a good handmade suit could be had for the price of a one ounce United States gold piece. Today that same gold coin will buy you the same handmade suit of cloths. Most men are not like the aficionados of fine mens shoes who follow this thread, and would never spend more than $100, let alone $1000 and up, on a pair of shoes. I agree with aportnoy in that we are talking apples and oranges when you start to mention Vass and John Lobb in the same sentence. If you want a beautifully fitting and finished pair of handmade shoes your going to need at least a couple pieces of gold, if not more. Laszlo Vass even mentions JL in his own book as being a maker of some very fine shoes. Manufacturing techniques have changed and improved since Caesar went to the Forum to be crowned King. But if you want to have some shoes made essentially the same way as they were when Martin Luther was tagging church doors Vass shoes are a pretty good buy. The best shoes that money can buy are the ones that fit your feet and that you would wear any where.
post #8796 of 12313
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrybrowne View Post

Nope. burnishing has nothing to do with it. Also, I would not call a ~30% increase in price between EG and Vass "pretty substantial".

Of the 9 pair of Vass I've owned (all but 2 now sold) 4 had issues with finish. This includes misapplied dye on the toes and elsewhere, edge dressing applied on the forefoot, poor stitching, and in one case, poor quality leather (nothing to do with creasing). I would say 4 additional pair had issues with fit (historically well known to Vass buyers, but maybe they have fixed this). All on the P2, with variability between half a size to, no joke, almost 1.5 sizes.

I've probably owned 60-70 pair of EG and have had very minor issues with maybe 2 pair. All of which were fixed right away. Again, with reference to the "gemming issue" my gemmed EGs consistently have better finishing than my bespoke shoes.
you have excellent attention to detail.
post #8797 of 12313
Quote:
Originally Posted by aportnoy View Post

Care to compare the annual output of Vass vs. EG or Lobb? My guess is that it's 10:1 or greater. Apples and oranges and if you don't understand that, so be it.

JL Northampton produces about 20,000 per year. JL Paris bespoke produces less than 2,000 per year and Saint Crispins produces about 1,200 per year. No idea about EG, but C&J produces ~100,000 and Church's is at ~700,000. Crude data but the magnitude is correct.

For some reason I don't think Vass produces less than JL Paris bespoke workshop if Vass is capable of taking Isetan's OEM orders.

Again, it's fine to fantasize Vass as an artisanal workshop but it is in the shoe manufacturing business. And they do make good shoes for the price.
post #8798 of 12313
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

JL Northampton produces about 20,000 per year. JL Paris bespoke produces less than 2,000 per year and Saint Crispins produces about 1,200 per year. No idea about EG, but C&J produces ~100,000 and Church's is at ~700,000. Crude data but the magnitude is correct.

For some reason I don't think Vass produces less than JL Paris bespoke workshop if Vass is capable of taking Isetan's OEM orders.

Again, it's fine to fantasize Vass as an artisanal workshop but it is in the shoe manufacturing business.

Ok, we agree I have no idea what you are talking about.
post #8799 of 12313
Quote:
Originally Posted by aportnoy View Post

I not sure I would call that a lot.icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif
ante up Aportnoy
post #8800 of 12313
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkDerm View Post

ante up Aportnoy

~3x
post #8801 of 12313
^^^ Yowza! Certainly sounds like you have an ample frame of reference for discussing comparative quality.
post #8802 of 12313

Well….I just received my suede chukkas on the F-last. I took the same size in these as I did in my theresianer high boots on the F-last. These, however, fit substantially bigger. I compared them to the high boots and there is a slight difference in length. Hopefully Mr. Kuti will let me know what he thinks but these are probably going back. :fu:  

 

Now I'll have to wait another 5 or so weeks. Oh well. 

post #8803 of 12313
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

Again, it's fine to fantasize Vass as an artisanal workshop but it is in the shoe manufacturing business. And they do make good shoes for the price.

I think all the brands referred here are in shoe manufacturing business and is run as a business. What has been referred to as finishing issues are idiosyncrasies expected from a hand made operation and to some there in lies the beauty.
I tend to think holistically and when it comes to price to value ratio Vass will be hard to beat.
post #8804 of 12313
I think the problem people have here is one of standards. 'Good' for chogall and other aficionados (who buy bespoke lobb and EG regularly) is exceptional to others.

Plus, vass which is 600-700 for calfskin vs lobb and eg at 1200+++. Expectations have to be different.
post #8805 of 12313
Quote:
Originally Posted by venividivicibj View Post

I think the problem people have here is one of standards. 'Good' for chogall and other aficionados (who buy bespoke lobb and EG regularly) is exceptional to others.



Plus, vass which is 600-700 for calfskin vs lobb and eg at 1200+++. Expectations have to be different.

 



Which is why I asked if vass could reasonably be described as "mediocre" in the RTW context. For me, the answer to that question is "no". Others are welcome to think differently.
Edited by RogerP - 10/30/13 at 11:19am
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