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post #6001 of 13367
Fair enough.
post #6002 of 13367
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarbutch View Post

If the product is improved or became more consistent—and no one has suggested it hasn't—what's the problem? Their cost per shoe may be down in labor, but they've made a capital investment which needs to be amortized. Why should they lower their price?

 If the machine was 50K GBP, wouldn't that be very quickly offset by the collective annual salaries of all the clickers they canned?  I'm just geussing.  But that aside, luxury goods almost never ever ever ever go down in price.  Bad juju.

post #6003 of 13367
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerP View Post


What's not to love?  Some would prefer a slightly less than absolutely perfect hand-made shoe, to a completely perfect machine-made shoe.  I know I would.  I do not fear the robo-shoe.  I just do not want one.

I do not wear Lobbs, and as such I'm not directly affected by this particular event, but when the day comes that all shoes are 100 % machine-made I'm getting myself a 3D printer. If my shoes are going to be made by a machine, then it might as well be a machine in my own control.

On a more Vass related note, I recently placed my first order through Tombrone. I know that the people at Vass are quite easy to deal with, but the shoe I wanted actually came out cheaper through Tom. Now the waiting game begins.
post #6004 of 13367
Quote:
Originally Posted by bboysdontcryy View Post

It's a luxury good as well and I doubt that getting a laser is so they can transfer the savings and lower the price for customers. They probably want a greater profit margin.

You've hit the nail on this one - end of the day they are own by Hermes. 

 

Profit

Profit 

and More Profit...

post #6005 of 13367
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarbutch View Post


Perhaps. It also sounds like they may want to future-proof their business in the face of labor scarcity. Both, however, are speculation on our part.
Given how much some here complain about tiny alignment issues with broguing, etc., perhaps consistency is a real problem for them. Dunno. As for the SuperStitcher 5000™, I wouldn't boo just because it was no longer hand-stitched. If the shoes were made to the same standard or better, it would eventually lead to better quality shoes at a lower price. What's not to love? I do not fear the future.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roguls View Post


So they bought a laser, contracted their workforce, lessened their need for ancillary work, and still have astronomical prices. All to produce a non-hand made product.

Grrrrreat.

They want to future-proof their business in the face of labor scarcity and rising labour cost. 

Lobb did not have their usual annual sale on last year as they're telling everyone they had 

a stonking year due to the weak £ and high demand from Asia.

 

That's all true, but behind the scene there's more happening.  We no longer have the luxury of 

popping into their factory shop and picking up a pair of £900 rejected blemish Chapel Monks

for £270 anymore. Their factory prices are now £600 for rejected prestige range. 

The new QA guys are no longer rejecting shoes with blemishes or minor faults, they have

simply lowered the quality bar to easily pass QA......Sad....

 

 

Anyway...back to Vass. I'll be receiving Vass new colour range in Oil Green on the River II model this weekend...pics to come shortly.   

post #6006 of 13367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilovelobbs View Post

What would you expect from a British manufacturer...with the high cost of labour in the UK and diminishing
number of semi & skilled people entering the trade, corners are bound to be cut - and to keep up with the
the high demand in their RTW range, it's all down to economics.

From what I heard, they are made by Crockett & Jones, somehow I wonder why they don't produce that line under their own brand, with the same finish and their own last. The leather used in AG is one of the best I find in the market

Look at Anthony Cleverleys Semi-bespoke range - for £795 to £995 you expect them to be made onsite. 
But no, when I found out who makes them I placed more value on the manufacturers own brand at a fracton
of the cost.  
post #6007 of 13367
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarbutch View Post

If the product is improved or became more consistent—and no one has suggested it hasn't—what's the problem? Their cost per shoe may be down in labor, but they've made a capital investment which needs to be amortized. Why should they lower their price?

I was pointing out that I am a proponent of the hand-making of expensive shoes. Craftsman should be part of the process. And the small invariables that arise from hand making shoes is a fine thing.

Also, I was bemoaning the every increasing creep of the robotization of everything. Many economists believe that, because of efficiencies in robotics and the like, the unemployment rate in even the top 1st world countries will remain closer to 10% than 5%. I'm seeing something small that may be a good business move for an individual company as being part of a larger shift that does not bode well for, well, humanity.

Soon, we'll have 3-D printed shoes....
post #6008 of 13367
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarbutch View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by bboysdontcryy View Post

It's a luxury good as well and I doubt that getting a laser is so they can transfer the savings and lower the price for customers. They probably want a greater profit margin.

Perhaps. It also sounds like they may want to future-proof their business in the face of labor scarcity. Both, however, are speculation on our part.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerP View Post

Was 'inconsistency' in the way the leather was cut (by hand) a real problem for them prior to getting this fancy new laser?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarbutch View Post

If the product is improved or became more consistent—and no one has suggested it hasn't—what's the problem? Their cost per shoe may be down in labor, but they've made a capital investment which needs to be amortized. Why should they lower their price?

What if they got a really cool machine that could completely automate all the stitching to make it more 'consistent' - would you stand up and cheer?

Given how much some here complain about tiny alignment issues with broguing, etc., perhaps consistency is a real problem for them. Dunno. As for the SuperStitcher 5000™, I wouldn't boo just because it was no longer hand-stitched. If the shoes were made to the same standard or better, it would eventually lead to better quality shoes at a lower price. What's not to love? I do not fear the future.

You got this one wrong.
They would not lower the prices, they would just increase their margins ever more.

Also, regarding the laser cutting machine, I would guess it comes with a lower quality in leather pieces aswell.
Why? Not because the laser is cutting badly, but because I am almost certain they will too have a camera measuring the pieces of leather and software that calculates how to cut it the most economically.
From what I have learned at SF, I would guess the most time consuming process of the clickers is/was to check the leather for faults and to imagine a way to cut around them while still getting as many "finished" piece out of it as possible.
The cutting along the traces of a pattern should not take too long or be impossible to master.
Thus I expect the most recent JLs to have more imperfections in the uppers than on their older shoes.
post #6009 of 13367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis XIV View Post

You got this one wrong.
They would not lower the prices, they would just increase their margins ever more.

I did not mean to suggest that this particular vendor would lower prices, but that the techniques would spread to other makers who aren't as rarefied, allowing them to offer quality previously only available at a higher price.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis XIV View Post

Thus I expect the most recent JLs to have more imperfections in the uppers than on their older shoes.

If it does pan out this way, then I would expect a commensurate loss of reputation.
post #6010 of 13367
Quote:
Originally Posted by add911_11 View Post
 
 
From what I heard, they are made by Crockett & Jones, somehow I wonder why they don't produce that line under their own brand, with the same finish and their own last. The leather used in AG is one of the best I find in the market


 

 

Add911 -

 

Whatever you heard is 100% correct. AC Semi-Bespoke are indeed made by Crocketts. I couldn't believe

the £995 shoes could possibly come out of the Crocketts factory....I was amazed by the leather grade,  

sublime finishing, bevelled waist and elongated last.  They are definitely in the Corthay & Crispin league...

 

I don't understand why Crockett do not come out with their own top top end range to compete with the

SC, Corthays etc...

post #6011 of 13367

My understanding was that the standard bench made Cleverley range are made by C&J, but the higher end Anthony Cleverley range are made by Edward Green.  Please correct me if that's wrong.  In either case, they are slightly more expensive than the maker's own-name equivalent.

 

Anyway ILL, I'm looking forward to seeing that original, hand-welted green austerity wingtip from VASS!

post #6012 of 13367
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimo View Post

My understanding was that the standard bench made Cleverley range are made by C&J, but the higher end Anthony Cleverley range are made by Edward Green.  Please correct me if that's wrong.  In either case, they are slightly more expensive than the maker's own-name equivalent.

Anyway ILL, I'm looking forward to seeing that original, hand-welted green austerity wingtip from VASS!

Another interesting point. Why Edward Green does not make their top drawer range RTW again? My father's one a 'century' ago still looks so nice, and so much better than what they offer RTW nowadays. It is similar to G&G's Deco, will it be really a bad decision to have it RTW? I can imagine it will sell very well overseas.
post #6013 of 13367

I noticed this in my Vass whiskey loafers a few days ago. I always use a shoe horn so hard to see how this would happen. Maybe this is one of those idiosyncrasies of handmade shoes. And maybe that's why Razor had told me, "Mr Vass don't like to make cordovan loafer... but if you want we will make."

 

Wonder if it can be repaired by a cobbler without sending back to Vass.

 

post #6014 of 13367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddler View Post

I noticed this in my Vass whiskey loafers a few days ago. I always use a shoe horn so hard to see how this would happen. Maybe this is one of those idiosyncrasies of handmade shoes. And maybe that's why Razor had told me, "Mr Vass don't like to make cordovan loafer... but if you want we will make."

 

Wonder if it can be repaired by a cobbler without sending back to Vass.

 

Doesn't look like any real damage, you could probably restitch it yourself if you were feeling particularly daring. I forget what the front of your loafer is like, but I'm surprised they didn't make a seamless heel.

post #6015 of 13367

That's them from the front.

 

700

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