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post #5986 of 12916
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilovelobbs View Post

This month John Lobb just taken delivery of a £50K laser machine to do their pattern cutting. Imagine the sheer number of redundancies of independent cutters around the Northampton area once the the machine in full force. You will soon notice the leather cut to your Chapels/Phillips are alot sharper and straighter than handheld knives.  It makes sense as cost everywhere rising.

 

So the clicking part is mechanized?  Makes sense but how much more benefit/accuracy/blemish avoidance do laser cutters have compare to say the very typical leather cutting/pressing machines?

 

I do think that for exotic leathers they would still need hand clicker just to make sure they get the right cut of patterns/alignment.  No?

post #5987 of 12916
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilovelobbs View Post

This month John Lobb just taken delivery of a £50K laser machine to do their pattern cutting. Imagine the sheer number of redundancies of independent cutters around the Northampton area once the the machine in full force. You will soon notice the leather cut to your Chapels/Phillips are alot sharper and straighter than handheld knives.  It makes sense as cost everywhere rising.

Interesting. But they still have to have a clicker who choose where the different parts should be cut on the leather, right? To me it's a bit sad that machines take over more even in fine benchmade products such as Lobbs.
post #5988 of 12916

I think Lobb have used a laser for etching some brogueing on their patterns for a while - a deliberate selling point too I believe.  But I agree this sounds a bit like the mass produced clothing industry, with laser cutting to increase consistency and minimise waste.

post #5989 of 12916
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimo View Post

 But I agree this sounds a bit like the mass produced clothing industry, with laser cutting to increase consistency and minimise waste.

In of itself, this is not an issue and may even be preferable to conventional methods. It's consistency is likely far superior. The concern (and this may be what you were getting at) is the slippery slope of cutting costs resulting in a potentially inferior item.
post #5990 of 12916
Quote:
Originally Posted by j ingevaldsson View Post


Interesting. But they still have to have a clicker who choose where the different parts should be cut on the leather, right? To me it's a bit sad that machines take over more even in fine benchmade products such as Lobbs.

 

 

I agree.  I understand the efficiencies and improved consistency, but still don't find it appealing.  If a robot were capable of crafting a shoe that was absolutely perfect in ever aspect of its construction, I wouldn't want it.  Hand made items appeal to me precisely because they are made by skilled artisans.  Making them well takes actual skill.  And time.  I don't expect perfection in a hand made product, so automation in furtherance of perfection is not a tradeoff that I embrace.

post #5991 of 12916
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilovelobbs View Post

I originally asked for Dainite back in 2012 - but they only had the chunkier Italian Vibram sole which was more suited for rock climbing.

If you wanted other sole you had to provide them the material...But I do know Dainite is not available as of Jan this year.
Some of my my new orders will be in Dainite...so nice to know the Vass boots will have a British Foundation. As Dainite a British
trademark.

Thanks.

To those that spoke about Vibram, thank you too. I definitely want something sleeker, without the rugged ridges.
post #5992 of 12916
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

 

So the clicking part is mechanized?  Makes sense but how much more benefit/accuracy/blemish avoidance do laser cutters have compare to say the very typical leather cutting/pressing machines?

 

I do think that for exotic leathers they would still need hand clicker just to make sure they get the right cut of patterns/alignment.  No?

 

Any exotics sticks out like a sore thumb at JL - especially when they retail for over £6K. They only make about 1-2 pairs a week.

So exotics, MTO, Special wholecuts, Bespoke are still traditionally by handheld knives.

 

But we're talking about the 200-300+ RTW and ever increasing shoes they churn out every week. Notice many of their casuals and £800 riding boots no longer say Made In England - It's all made in Italy.  The cutting of the classic/prestige range with more components like the quarter heel, vamp; toe cap; inner section are tedius task with lots of overhead.  And more of this work can be automated and bought in-house..

 

The laser machine is a special machine for JL and by far a big capital investment by JL & Co..it's got the

whole town talking.  My cobbler who repairs all my stitches and sole and does lots of work for JL & EG is already moaning about the limited work coming his way.


Edited by Ilovelobbs - 3/7/13 at 1:58am
post #5993 of 12916
Quote:
Originally Posted by rikod View Post


I agree with you and I'm looking forward to your pictures.

I'm selling most of my shoes from Vass and others. Some are new, some like new (1,2 or 3 wears) and some used a bit but in excellent condition, almost new I would say, I take great care of my things. If anyone is interested and in the UK7E, US8D, 40.5 - 41 range please visit ebay, I posted the first batch and will be posting batches every week. My apologies for using the thread for this but it will be the first and only time, so if anyone is interested please pm me. Thank you!


Rikod: If you dont mind me asking - why?

post #5994 of 12916
Quote:
Originally Posted by gyasih View Post

What's the difference between storm welt and just the regular way the welt is made? I don't know if i make sense. I want to get a pair of Austerity Boots made, but unsure about this feature. And Vass does have Dainite, correct?

 

Here you go....

 

http://www.askandyaboutclothes.com/forum/showthread.php?72949-What-is-a-quot-Storm-Welt-quot

 

Hope this helps.  My recent pics of the Shell high boots with Goyser stitches is a derivative of storm welt...

so it's an extra strip of leather above the sole on the shoes and boots to repel the incursion of moisture/water....then again it attracts alot of salt, dirt, dust, sand and what not on your street... 


Edited by Ilovelobbs - 3/7/13 at 5:43am
post #5995 of 12916
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilovelobbs View Post

Any exotics sticks out like a sore thumb at JL - especially when they retail for over £6K. They only make about 1-2 pairs a week.
So exotics, MTO, Special wholecuts, Bespoke are still traditionally by handheld knives.

But we're talking about the 200-300+ RTW and ever increasing shoes they churn out every week. Notice many of their casuals and £800 riding boots no longer say Made In England - It's all made in Italy.  The cutting of the classic/prestige range with more components like the quarter heel, vamp; toe cap; inner section are tedius task with lots of overhead.  And more of this work can be automated and bought in-house..

The laser machine is a special machine for JL and by far a big capital investment by JL & Co..it's got the
whole town talking.  My cobbler who repairs all my stitches and sole and does lots of work for JL & EG is already moaning about the limited work coming his way.

So they bought a laser, contracted their workforce, lessened their need for ancillary work, and still have astronomical prices. All to produce a non-hand made product.

Grrrrreat.
post #5996 of 12916
If the product is improved or became more consistent—and no one has suggested it hasn't—what's the problem? Their cost per shoe may be down in labor, but they've made a capital investment which needs to be amortized. Why should they lower their price?
post #5997 of 12916
It's a luxury good as well and I doubt that getting a laser is so they can transfer the savings and lower the price for customers. They probably want a greater profit margin.
post #5998 of 12916

Was 'inconsistency' in the way the leather was cut (by hand) a real problem for them prior to getting this fancy new laser?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarbutch View Post

If the product is improved or became more consistent—and no one has suggested it hasn't—what's the problem? Their cost per shoe may be down in labor, but they've made a capital investment which needs to be amortized. Why should they lower their price?

 


What if they got a really cool machine that could completely automate all the stitching to make it more 'consistent' - would you stand up and cheer?

post #5999 of 12916
Quote:
Originally Posted by bboysdontcryy View Post

It's a luxury good as well and I doubt that getting a laser is so they can transfer the savings and lower the price for customers. They probably want a greater profit margin.

Perhaps. It also sounds like they may want to future-proof their business in the face of labor scarcity. Both, however, are speculation on our part.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerP View Post

Was 'inconsistency' in the way the leather was cut (by hand) a real problem for them prior to getting this fancy new laser?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarbutch View Post

If the product is improved or became more consistent—and no one has suggested it hasn't—what's the problem? Their cost per shoe may be down in labor, but they've made a capital investment which needs to be amortized. Why should they lower their price?

What if they got a really cool machine that could completely automate all the stitching to make it more 'consistent' - would you stand up and cheer?

Given how much some here complain about tiny alignment issues with broguing, etc., perhaps consistency is a real problem for them. Dunno. As for the SuperStitcher 5000™, I wouldn't boo just because it was no longer hand-stitched. If the shoes were made to the same standard or better, it would eventually lead to better quality shoes at a lower price. What's not to love? I do not fear the future.
post #6000 of 12916
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarbutch View Post


Perhaps. It also sounds like they may want to future-proof their business in the face of labor scarcity. Both, however, are speculation on our part.
Given how much some here complain about tiny alignment issues with broguing, etc., perhaps consistency is a real problem for them. Dunno. As for the SuperStitcher 5000™, I wouldn't boo just because it was no longer hand-stitched. If the shoes were made to the same standard or better, it would eventually lead to better quality shoes at a lower price. What's not to love? I do not fear the future.

 

 

What's not to love?  Some would prefer a slightly less than absolutely perfect hand-made shoe, to a completely perfect machine-made shoe.  I know I would.  I do not fear the robo-shoe.  I just do not want one.

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