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The Ultimate Vass Porn Thread - Page 369

post #5521 of 12856
Quote:
Originally Posted by isshinryu101 View Post

Nope. Can't effectively glue leather to leather here. Always some type of textile used. It is what the machine is designed to use. Not sure if you understand 100%. The welt IS leather. The welt is just sewn to a piece of textile that is glued to the insole. The welt IS leather, it's the FEATHER that is textile. In hand welted shoes, the feather is created by scoring a piece of the leather insole and the welt is sewn to that.

Goodyear just eliminates the step of hand-creating a feather by scoring the insole. Instead, it uses a piece of textile glued to the insole by a machine as the feather.

You are correct, except that in earlier usage of the Goodyear machine method they sill used the carved leather feather.
post #5522 of 12856
Quote:
Originally Posted by isshinryu101 View Post

keep in mind that digital watches have surpassed movements in most watch sales today. In many cases, they keep time just as accurately (or even more so) than their predecessors. Maybe it's not really all about whether the gemming will fail or not. Maybe it is about knowing your shoes are 100% handmade works of art... or not.

Completely agree!
post #5523 of 12856
Quote:
Originally Posted by isshinryu101 View Post

keep in mind that digital watches have surpassed movements in most watch sales today. In many cases, they keep time just as accurately (or even more so) than their predecessors. Maybe it's not really all about whether the gemming will fail or not. Maybe it is about knowing your shoes are 100% handmade works of art... or not.


Nice point
post #5524 of 12856
As much as I hate discussing it over and over, I think a big part of why "gemming" is so controversial is that people don't really understand what it is, and thus think the debate is over which method is better. There is no such debate. Simply put, goodyear welting is a type of cemented construction that enables for the presence of a welt by stitching it to a piece of canvas (gemming) that is glued to the insole. Handwelting is when the welt is stitched by hand to the insole, and does not rely on glue to hold the integrity of the shoe. One is better than the other, both in terms of durability and skill required; everyone who understands shoe construction accepts this.

This doesn't mean that the "enlightened few" who understand the differences do or should feel obliged to only wear handwelted shoes. One must also accept that there is value in purchasing for aesthetic reasons. Noone should feel required to justify everything by durability or price:quality ratios. Good looking shoes are good looking shoes, and this is styleforum, after all.

Also, thesis writing makes me want to have a massive debate on the internet...
post #5525 of 12856

I don't understand why there are dozens of people arguing the same point, when noone seems to be debating against them.

post #5526 of 12856
Wouldn't it be awesome if we could drag mafoofan into submitting a thesis on the topic?
post #5527 of 12856
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post #5528 of 12856
Not to change the subject too much, but has anyone had occasion to look at or try on the P3 last? (There is a Londoner on eBay.) Supposedly it combines the P2 and 3636.
post #5529 of 12856
Quote:
Originally Posted by Concordia View Post

Not to change the subject too much, but has anyone had occasion to look at or try on the P3 last? (There is a Londoner on eBay.) Supposedly it combines the P2 and 3636.

Just searched and saw them on eBay and am very curious as well.
post #5530 of 12856

Question: TTS US 9D will fit what in the F last and U last?

 

Under what circumstance would one take the same size in both F and U lasts?

 

 

 

I find it interesting that few post pics with Vass shoes on their feet...

post #5531 of 12856
narrow feet ( I do take the same size)
post #5532 of 12856
Quote:
Originally Posted by hendrix View Post

plastic toe puff/heel stiffener is far inferior to leather ones IME. Not sure whether it's just me, but they're fare less breathable, and don't mold at all to the shape of the foot, and sometimes make weird popping sounds when walking. I also have a pair of zip boots where the plastic heel puff caused excessive friction and damage against the inner lining.

I don't understand why they're so universal. A left over piece of stiff leather can't be much material cost, yet it performs so much better.

You are completely correct here. The thing here however is that a leather too puff/heal stiffener is alot more work to install/properly and elegantly. Synthetic stiffeners are very thin and usually resin impregnated for quick heat forming during assembly. Leather versions need to be skived and coated and then planed to merge seemlessly to the lining so that you do not see a transition through the exterior leather. I am doing thisright now on a handmade shoe I am making and it is alot of time effort that adds up quickly in a factory even though the actual cost ofthat leather stiffener is probably less than synthetic version.
post #5533 of 12856
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdot View Post

I believe that actually goodyear welt construction can be and once was done with a leather welt strip instead of gemming. So Goodyear does not really mean gemmed technically. Although in terms of how Goodyear is currently done by the VAST majority of makers the two are indeed nearly interchangable.

As Isshinryu101, mentioned the welt has always been leather. The welt is what you see when looking down at your shoes and the stitches you see connect the welt to the exterior bottom sole. This welt is stitched to the shoe upper and to either a holdfast which is integral to the inner sole or to a canvas rib which is glue to the inner sole. The holdfast is like a damn that is carved into the sole leather and can only ever be done properly by hand. In contrast in the original goodyear method (machine method) devised to save time and effort, the inner sole was scored vertically and horizontally near the edge such that a flap of leather could be raised perpindicular to the plane of the sole andto which the upper and welt would be stitched. Unfortuneately sole leather is stiff enoughthat the scoring had to be deep and this left very little substance connecting the leather flap to the sole. Infact tearing in this area was frequent and too try to correct this situation it became common practice to glue a canvas tape rienforcing the leather flap were the bending was most severe. It was just a smallstep from this to realize that you could do away woth the thicker leather inner sole and scoring and simply rely 100 percent on the glued tape whichyou would turn up thus becoming a rib (gemming). As suchyou are now relying on a glued connection which is in fact very similar in location to typical cement construction. This glue will often fail simply due to moisture from rain and perspiration, however keep in mind that with cement construction there usually is a wider glue joint vs the common thinner gemming and thus gemming is prone to quicker failure.

If however you never wear your shoes in rain or snow and have very dry feet (perspire very little and usually have dryed cracked skin) then there is a high probability the the gemming will never fail (nor would the cement constructed shoe). If on the other hand you perspire alot then gemming is a virtual guarantee and this in more or less time.
post #5534 of 12856
Recently delivered oiled green calf Alt Wien on the New Peter last, single leather sole.






Fit feels good right now. Ordered a 45 for my US11D-verging-on-E feet. Only issue I see right now is a roll in the leather on the instep right below the lacing area. I think you can see it in the photo below. Not sure what this means. Perhaps that my instep is a little high for the New Peter. Thoughts?

post #5535 of 12856

This thread is becoming shoe nerd sex.  I am enjoying it.

 

But probably better get the subject back to Vass before the sound of worldwide facepalming becomes too deafening.

 

Question: my feet are a little curved, and wide across the forefoot.  I don't have a particularly high instep, but do find some oxfords tight over the ball of my foot.  Anyway, do any of you Vass mega-customers have any suggestions on Vass lasts?  

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