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The Ultimate Vass (Footwear) Thread (Pictures, reviews, sizing, etc...) - Page 551

post #8251 of 20218
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerP View Post


Well I wasn't commenting on overall finishing.  Do you imagine that anyone would dispute that overall finishing is important in a high end shoe?  I inquired as to whether there was practical benefit to 10 stitches per inch versus 7.5.  You said practical benefits aren't all that matter, aesthetics count.  Okay, so is there an aesthetic benefit to 10 stitches per inch versus 7.5?  I am guessing your answer to that is "no"?  If you had to measure your G&G bespoke to determine that there were 10-11 per inch, it's obviously not something you can just look at and see.

Are we still discussing the difference between Vass vs west end stitching? If so, G&G bespoke stitching looks tighter to me than Vass. I can't tell you if it is because of the different technique, stitches per inch or combination thereof.
post #8252 of 20218
I wear 40.5 in the f last and i am a uk 7 in almost every english brand. If you are a 6.5, then 40 may possibly be a better fit. But Ive had 2 pairs of vass that were both 40.5 f last and one pair was a bit larger than the other. Sometimes the sizing is not always exact
post #8253 of 20218

Torsion - I agree that it is not ideal for the laces to be fully closed at first wearing - but it is not far from ideal, IMO (maybe a 1/4" separation at the top).

 

I think it a bit of an oversimplification to say you need to go a half size down because of the closed lacing alone - for example - you may need every bit of the length that this size gives you and half a size down could compromise that.

 

When it comes to less than perfect fit (and a shoe can fit less than perfectly but still be comfortable and look good), a bit large is much better than a bit small.  If, when the shoes break in and stretch a bit, you find a bit too much room over the instep, then an insole or a tongue pad may provide an entirely adequate solution.

 

But much depends on how they fit now - which you know better than any of us. Is there already space over your instep, or do the laces just close?  Is there a lot of room in the forefoot?  Noticeable extra length?  Heel slip?  If yes, then a half size down may be the better bet.  If no, then I wouldn't size down.

 

For reference, here is how my tri-cognac oxfords fit when new (and they are now pretty much completely closed):

 

 

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Smart to get a wide range of input from others - but you are in by far the best position to make the call.

post #8254 of 20218
Quote:
Originally Posted by poorsod View Post


Are we still discussing the difference between Vass vs west end stitching? If so, G&G bespoke stitching looks tighter to me than Vass. I can't tell you if it is because of the different technique, stitches per inch or combination thereof.

 

We were never discussing the execution of the stitching by one brand as compared with another.  We were discussing whether there is either an aesthetic or a functional benefit to 10 stitches per inch versus 7.5 stitches per inch, regardless of who made what shoe. Is the quality improved in some articulable way?  Does an extra 2.5 stitches per inch always look better?  Would 12 or 15 stitches per inch necessarily look better than 10?  I'm just not hearing a supportable affirmative response to any of those questions.

 

Out of curiosity - what is the price of G&G Bespoke?  I only have one pair of G&G RTW - and they are already significantly more costly than most of Vass shoes.  I assume that gap would widen with bespoke, but as I have never gone that route, I don't know.  I certainly would not put the overall finish of G&G RTW ahead of Vass (I have looked over a broad cross-section of G&G offerings in person at a local retailer) .  Though I am very fond of my single pair of G&G.

post #8255 of 20218
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerP View Post
 

 

We were never discussing the execution of the stitching by one brand as compared with another.  We were discussing whether there is either an aesthetic or a functional benefit to 10 stitches per inch versus 7.5 stitches per inch, regardless of who made what shoe. Is the quality improved in some articulable way?  Does an extra 2.5 stitches per inch always look better?  Would 12 or 15 stitches per inch necessarily look better than 10?  I'm just not hearing a supportable affirmative response to any of those questions.

 

Out of curiosity - what is the price of G&G Bespoke?  I only have one pair of G&G RTW - and they are already significantly more costly than most of Vass shoes.  I assume that gap would widen with bespoke, but as I have never gone that route, I don't know.  I certainly would not put the overall finish of G&G RTW ahead of Vass (I have looked over a broad cross-section of G&G offerings in person at a local retailer) .  Though I am very fond of my single pair of G&G.

 

You can assume it to be around to £3,000

post #8256 of 20218
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post
 

 

You can assume it to be around to £3,000

 

 Hmmm - 1 pair of G&G bespoke vs. a whole shoe wardrobe (7 or 8 pair) of Vass?  G&G better damned well have nicer stitching.

:D

post #8257 of 20218
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerP View Post

Torsion - I agree that it is not ideal for the laces to be fully closed at first wearing - but it is not far from ideal, IMO (maybe a 1/4" separation at the top).

I think it a bit of an oversimplification to say you need to go a half size down because of the closed lacing alone - for example - you may need every bit of the length that this size gives you and half a size down could compromise that.

When it comes to less than perfect fit (and a shoe can fit less than perfectly but still be comfortable and look good), a bit large is much better than a bit small.  If, when the shoes break in and stretch a bit, you find a bit too much room over the instep, then an insole or a tongue pad may provide an entirely adequate solution.

But much depends on how they fit now - which you know better than any of us. Is there already space over your instep, or do the laces just close?  Is there a lot of room in the forefoot?  Noticeable extra length?  Heel slip?  If yes, then a half size down may be the better bet.  If no, then I wouldn't size down.

For reference, here is how my tri-cognac oxfords fit when new (and they are now pretty much completely closed): Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

orig.jpg
Smart to get a wide range of input from others - but you are in by far the best position to make the call.

This information is completely accurate IMO. The vamp may sit higher on your foot but the length may be exact and it might mean that the last is not good for your foot and there must be a better last choice for your foot. IMO if a shoe is brand new and laces are completely closed then when the shoe stretches and breaks in just slightly then they will be too big. YMMV but thats my .02
post #8258 of 20218
Quote:
Originally Posted by justinkapur View Post

This information is completely accurate IMO. The vamp may sit higher on your foot but the length may be exact and it might mean that the last is not good for your foot and there must be a better last choice for your foot. IMO if a shoe is brand new and laces are completely closed then when the shoe stretches and breaks in just slightly then they will be too big. YMMV but thats my .02

And with all this being said, is there a Vass last that is better suited for those of us with low insteps?
post #8259 of 20218
Quote:
Originally Posted by velomane View Post

And with all this being said, is there a Vass last that is better suited for those of us with low insteps?

unfortunately I have never handled a pair of Vass. I would love to in the future but I am just oogling all the beautiful shoes in this thread. I know this would not be most peoples first but I love that light shell 2 eyelet split toe boot. I might have to pull the trigger on that in the future
post #8260 of 20218
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torsion View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by j ingevaldsson View Post Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)





Lovely shoes Torsion! But like Louis states it is a problem that the laces are fully closed when new. When the shoes have been broken in you could have problems lacing them tight enough. The F-last (and U and K) have a pretty high instep, so nothing that uncommon. If the fit like you seem to think is good otherwise, you could easily solve this though, by having a good cobbler insert a leather distance on the inside of the tounge. I actually have had this made with a pair of Vass myself, you can see pics and read about it on my blog here (it's the 3-eyelet derbys): http://shoegazingpunktse.blogspot.se/2013/05/guide-korrigeringar-av-passform-2.html

Use the translation tool on the left hand side to translate it to your language. The shoes fit great after I had the cobbler fix this, and didn't cost that much.

Hmmm interesting thoughts on the sizing guys - I may flip these and try a half size smaller, is it really an issue you guys have experienced before.
Would like people like RogerP to also comment, when you get Vass oxfords do they tighten up straight away like mine?
Length wise they measure very similar if not a little shorter than my other shoes.
Bit of a tough one - need other opinions and how much these may loosen up after breaking in...

Thanks

 

Hi.  I have a relatively high instep and VASS (Flast oxford) are the only shoes laces fully or almost fully closed down.

I requested more pairs of insock I can insert to adjust the size and they are working fine. 

 

Another point of consideration is how much do the shoes loosen after wearing, I have a feeling that compression of the sole of Vass is less than EG or GG.  After 10th or so wearing, I do not feel much change in Vass shoes fit, while I usually find quite a big change in English GYwelted shoes.   So if your shoes are comfortable now, I think you should keep those to determine the true size for you.

post #8261 of 20218
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerP View Post

 Hmmm - 1 pair of G&G bespoke vs. a whole shoe wardrobe (7 or 8 pair) of Vass?  G&G better damned well have nicer stitching.
biggrin.gif

The last pair of G&G bespoke shoes I got 1-2 years ago was about 2500 GBP. I am working on a boot commission currently. But bespoke is a completely different animal than RTW. They have to price in the cost of adjustments and the occasional complete remake. I sent back 3 of 4 pairs of shoes for some sort of adjustment (heel, toe height, width). Each leather and design combo wears on the foot a little differently, even on the same last. What I gain from bespoke is not just the shoes, but also the experience, learning and thinking that goes into each commission. I don't have many pairs of shoes but I think deeply about each pair I add.
post #8262 of 20218
Quote:
Originally Posted by wurger View Post

what is that?

VASS Budapest Shoes Budapest Last "Norweger Boots" Oxblood in calf. The boot version of this shoe:


post #8263 of 20218
Agree with your analysis below - I have come across JL and EG shoes which are machine welted, in the same size and width, and there always a degree of difference.

And because Vass shoes are hand made - there will always be a higher % the same size will not
always be the exact length and width by the nearest mm.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Akeem View Post

But Ive had 2 pairs of vass that were both 40.5 f last and one pair was a bit larger than the other. Sometimes the sizing is not always exact

 

post #8264 of 20218
Damn, just when I thought I had nailed my size...facepalm.gif

I'm going to list these on B/S and maybe the bay probably tonight.

Anyone interested in brand new unworn (just tried on inside for size) OE II - F Last , 6125 dark cognac, metal toe plates, double to single sole, 40.5 EUR - please PM me.

I just want my cost back on these so I can get another half size down....gutted
post #8265 of 20218
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torsion View Post

Damn, just when I thought I had nailed my size...facepalm.gif

I'm going to list these on B/S and maybe the bay probably tonight.

Anyone interested in brand new unworn (just tried on inside for size) OE II - F Last , 6125 dark cognac, metal toe plates, double to single sole, 40.5 EUR - please PM me.

I just want my cost back on these so I can get another half size down....gutted

But if they fit you well on all other aspects except the instep, then I would not change size. The sz40 will then be too small instead, better to attach a tongue pad, have a cobbler insert a professional leather tongue pad, or insert small insole which goes from the middle of the shoe and back.
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