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The Ultimate Vass (Footwear) Thread (Pictures, reviews, sizing, etc...) - Page 947

post #14191 of 20262
If it were me ordering my first pair of vass, I would not start with K last if you're worried about width since it has the least room in the toe box. Just a suggestion
post #14192 of 20262
I concur, the K is narrower than the U
post #14193 of 20262

Okay Gentlemen.

 

What about that U last, do you think it will work in a 43.5 "H" Fitting?

 

That F last seemed to be cool as well.

post #14194 of 20262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzmenco View Post

The wacky world of Vass sizing



Anyway this gives you an idea of the wacky world of Vass sizing.


None of the shoes is the correct fit. It is less to do with the wacky world of Vass sizing and more to do with the lack of acknowledgement and understanding that each last fits differently and has different dimensions.
post #14195 of 20262
Quote:
Originally Posted by sstomcat View Post

None of the shoes is the correct fit. It is less to do with the wacky world of Vass sizing and more to do with the lack of acknowledgement and understanding that each last fits differently and has different dimensions.

My friend, I need some guidance as to Vass sizing if you are able.

Thanks!
post #14196 of 20262
Quote:
Originally Posted by sstomcat View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzmenco View Post
 

The wacky world of Vass sizing



Anyway this gives you an idea of the wacky world of Vass sizing.


None of the shoes is the correct fit. It is less to do with the wacky world of Vass sizing and more to do with the lack of acknowledgement and understanding that each last fits differently and has different dimensions.

So please pray tell what is my proper size?

post #14197 of 20262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchman1 View Post

I was wanting a bal boot though.
 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerP View Post

 

My general preference is to get a last that fits, rather than select one that doesn't and then go for a dramatically wide or narrow rendition to make up for it. I've not personally tried Vass shoes in wide / extra-wide fittings, so I can't make a recommendation based on experience there for you.

 

Very good advice from RogerP. 

 

Obviously, wider fittings are there for a reason, as there are some people that need them. However, the U last is a difficult last to fit and so if you need a wider fitting and you're not sure of your size, then ordering a shell cordovan boot over the internet is really not the best thing to do as I think that there's a pretty high probability that things will end in disappointment and you'll end up trying to offload the boots on the Buying and Selling subforum at a loss. 

 

Also, it's worth bearing in mind that balmoral boots (at least, off-the shelf bal boots) simply do not fit quite a few people well. My feet are pretty average in width - not narrow, but not wide - but I have a high instep and I've basically given up on trying to find a pair of bal boots that fit me. 

post #14198 of 20262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Journeyman View Post


Also, it's worth bearing in mind that balmoral boots (at least, off-the shelf bal boots) simply do not fit quite a few people well. My feet are pretty average in width - not narrow, but not wide - but I have a high instep and I've basically given up on trying to find a pair of bal boots that fit me. 

WADR, I cannot think of a single reason--physical, mechanical, structural (patterns/style)--that a balmoral should fit any differently than any other oxford. That's what the balmoral is--an oxford. If a standard oxford...on given last...fits satisfactorily, there is no reason that a balmoral oxford on that last shouldn't fit the same way.

If the facings on balmoral boot aren't closing up, esp. above the break of the ankle, that's down to the pattern maker at the company who makes them. It doesn't have anything to do with the last or the fact that the boot is a balmoral.

At bottom, the balmoral is just a way of piecing the uppers together. It really has no bearing on fit. It is the last and the inside of the shoe that determines fit, not the way the uppers are cut.
post #14199 of 20262
DWFII,

Sir, what Vass last and size would you recommend based upon the sizing info I gave on the last page?

Thank You Sir!
post #14200 of 20262

@Watchman1 I love this thread....Vass makes some beautiful shoes and boots. From all the pictures I have seen on this thread since I subscribed to it it seem's Vass's weakness is in shaft design of their boots.

 

The pair I own is no exception..great fit everywhere on the footbed but the shaft is of a ridiculous proportion to the boot(blucher)...almost as if they used the same width opening and pattern for a size 45 as a 41. 

 

I could not even imagine every buying blindly a bal boot from Vass. I long for more Vass boots however I just can not risk the price of admission to trial and error them.

 

Good luck with your search...and be warned owning a Vass will make you want to look at it more than wear it...especially with a Goyser welt...it really is that beautiful.

post #14201 of 20262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchman1 View Post

DWFII,

Sir, what Vass last and size would you recommend based upon the sizing info I gave on the last page?

Thank You Sir!

No idea. I am a bespoke shoe/bootmaker and not really interested in critiquing Vass or their approach to last sizing.

That said, very frankly, I think that the whole approach of trying to get a correct fit with lasts that are shaped a little differently and have mass distributed a little differently, is fundamentally flawed. But all the RTW makers do that. More importantly, customers are forced to obsess endlessly over arbitrary and ultimately meaningless alpha-numeric designations with no real knowledge about how the dimensions of the last apply to their own feet.

I don't doubt that there are differences in the way certain last models fit...even if they are sized the same and measure identically. But none of that relates to your foot. In the end people are, I suspect simply settling for something close. And yes, that's the perspective of a bespoke maker and undoubtedly beside the point for those who have already decided that a shoe that really and truly fits is also beside the point.

What isn't beside the point, is that, bespoke or RTW, the physical dimensions of the space inside the shoe determines how the foot fills that space, not the way the patterns are cut.

--

edited for punctuation and clarity
Edited by DWFII - 3/8/15 at 12:41pm
post #14202 of 20262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahuna75 View Post

..Vass makes some beautiful shoes and boots. From all the pictures I have seen on this thread since I subscribed to it it seem's Vass's weakness is in shaft design of their boots.

I think that would almost have to be a universal problem with RTW.

Two customers can have feet that measure identically and yet one customer will have thick ankles and the other thin. Will one standard patterning system fit both customers? Not likely.

Without taking measurements up the leg...above the malleoli...there is no way the shaft of the boot and the way it closes, can be controlled.

It is one thing to have lasts in various configurations--one with more mass towards the plantar surface, another with more width in the forepart, and yet a third with a narrower heel seat or tread width. In various ways such configurations control the volume inside the shoe.

But the leg of the boot is not closed around a last. Nothing controls the internal volume of the leg. It can close up tight or with the facings an inch apart and nothing except the customer's foot/leg will determine otherwise.

RTW makers don't factor in such considerations...undoubtedly because short of MTM, there's nothing they can do about it.
post #14203 of 20262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Journeyman View Post



Very good advice from RogerP. 

Obviously, wider fittings are there for a reason, as there are some people that need them. However, the U last is a difficult last to fit and so if you need a wider fitting and you're not sure of your size, then ordering a shell cordovan boot over the internet is really not the best thing to do as I think that there's a pretty high probability that things will end in disappointment and you'll end up trying to offload the boots on the Buying and Selling subforum at a loss. 

Also, it's worth bearing in mind that balmoral boots (at least, off-the shelf bal boots) simply do not fit quite a few people well. My feet are pretty average in width - not narrow, but not wide - but I have a high instep and I've basically given up on trying to find a pair of bal boots that fit me. 

Thanks Journeyman. I will say, though, that Watchman1's fit description suggests he might have a hard time making any standard width last work. If he takes advice from Notch and Vass, things should work out okay. No guarantees, of course, when trying a brand for the first time. But none of us would likely have the collections we do if we never took the chance.
post #14204 of 20262
Oh, and I agree with his approach that, particularly for a boot, better to miss a little big than a little small. But if you take into consideration the advice of those with actual experience in fitting the brand (which the manufacturer and dealers have in abundance) you stand a good chance of not missing at all.
post #14205 of 20262
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahuna75 View Post

..Vass makes some beautiful shoes and boots. From all the pictures I have seen on this thread since I subscribed to it it seem's Vass's weakness is in shaft design of their boots.

I think that would almost have to be a universal problem with RTW.

Two customers can have feet that measure identically and yet one customer will have thick ankles and the other thin. Will one standard patterning system fit both customers? Not likely.

Without taking measurements up the leg...above the malleoli...there is no way the shaft of the boot and the way it closes, can be controlled.

It is one thing to have lasts in various configurations--one with more mass towards the plantar surface, another with more width in the forepart, and yet a third with a narrower heel seat or tread width. In various ways such configurations control the volume inside the shoe.

But the leg of the boot is not closed around a last. Nothing controls the internal volume of the leg. It can close up tight or with the facings an inch apart and nothing except the customer's foot/leg will determine otherwise.

RTW makers don't factor in such considerations...undoubtedly because short of MTM, there's nothing they can do about it.

 

There are levels of acceptance when it comes buying RTW do to as you mention the variances of owners ankle, leg area...however owning 20+ pairs of boots from 5-7 different makers you do get a feel for what is in range for being a good fit for an RTW...and while I do strive for as perfect of a fit I can get in the lasted area and that always takes centerstage..the shaft area there is a little more forgiveness....however from all the pictures of Vass boots I have seen and with the pair I own ...they seem to fall out of what I would consider acceptable. 

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