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The Ultimate Vass (Footwear) Thread (Pictures, reviews, sizing, etc...) - Page 909

post #13621 of 20248
Quote:
Originally Posted by ino68 View Post

Finishing wise I'd say they're really close, which really shows the value of Carmina.

Fit and feel wise, Vass is superior, they're lightweight and almost feel like wearing slippers...it was uncanny when I first tried mine on.

Pretty much no break in period, whereas my Carminas all took a couple weeks of wear to be comfortable.

+1
My humble opinion and experience thus far is that Vass fit like gloves and the fit is definitely much better than Carmina. The heel shape on Vass grips much better.

Also agree that there's pretty much no break in period whereas I know that I will expect pain for the 1st few weeks on my Carminas before they are comfortable.

Construction wise - Vass is handwelted - which is supposedly superior to Carmina's Goodyear

The other one is that Vass uses leather toe puff and heel counter stiffeners vs plastic on Carminas

Just my humble opinion and YMMV
post #13622 of 20248

From my experience, Carmina´s lasts (specially Simpson and Rain) fits tighter than Vass´ones and of course it takes a while to break in the shoes (I imagine less than Vass with those JR soles).  Furthermore, the heel areas are narrower than the ones of Vass I tested (3636 and P2).  I believe Carmina fit is great for normal to narrow heel area, while Vass fit it is great for normal to wide heel area IMHO.   Carmina´s shell cordovan is top notch for me and I do not notice the same discoloration as in Alden´s shell special treatment. All shell shoes they have in their shop in Madrid are uniform coloured, including the saddle and whisky ones. 

post #13623 of 20248

I did not know Carmina toe puff and heel counter were made of plastic.  Thank you for the input.

post #13624 of 20248
Quote:
Originally Posted by agedashidofu View Post


+1
My humble opinion and experience thus far is that Vass fit like gloves and the fit is definitely much better than Carmina. The heel shape on Vass grips much better.

Also agree that there's pretty much no break in period whereas I know that I will expect pain for the 1st few weeks on my Carminas before they are comfortable.

Construction wise - Vass is handwelted - which is supposedly superior to Carmina's Goodyear

The other one is that Vass uses leather toe puff and heel counter stiffeners vs plastic on Carminas

Just my humble opinion and YMMV

 

Are you sure Carmina use plastic for the heel counter? If anything, it would be celastic (fabric impregnated with plastic) which might be what you mean, but I thought it was leather board.

 

Toe stiffener is plastic or celastic for pretty much all factory made RTW brands, even Edward Green, Gaziano & Girling and the likes.

post #13625 of 20248
Quote:
Originally Posted by j ingevaldsson View Post

Are you sure Carmina use plastic for the heel counter? If anything, it would be celastic (fabric impregnated with plastic) which might be what you mean, but I thought it was leather board.

Toe stiffener is plastic or celastic for pretty much all factory made RTW brands, even Edward Green, Gaziano & Girling and the likes.

Yup
That is what I meant - thanks for the correction. I don't find them as comfortable as leather
post #13626 of 20248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Odd I/O View Post

what's the curent pricing for Vass Shell/Cordovan shoes or boots?

I was quoted 950 € for a pair of hight boots in early december.

post #13627 of 20248
Quote:
Originally Posted by agedashidofu View Post


Yup
That is what I meant - thanks for the correction. I don't find them as comfortable as leather

Good point.  Never realise of that.

post #13628 of 20248
Quote:
Originally Posted by j ingevaldsson View Post

Are you sure Carmina use plastic for the heel counter? If anything, it would be celastic (fabric impregnated with plastic) which might be what you mean, but I thought it was leather board.

Toe stiffener is plastic or celastic for pretty much all factory made RTW brands, even Edward Green, Gaziano & Girling and the likes.

Celastic is plastic...just as concrete is concrete even if it has rebar in it. Celastic is, however dipped in acetone before mounting so that it will be malleable and conform to the underlying structure. Once set, it is functionally and even materially indistinguishable from plastic.

Plastic toe and heel stiffeners are already set to whatever shape they were manufactured in--which may or may not be perfectly congruent with the lasts or shoes being made.

Leatherboard is a composite...like particle board...and, in one sense, is leather in name only, esp. with regard to the more salubrious and worthwhile characteristics of leather.

--
Edited by DWFII - 1/17/15 at 9:46am
post #13629 of 20248
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

Celastic is plastic...just as concrete is concrete even if it has rebar in it. Celastic is, however dipped in acetone before mounting so that it will be malleable and conform to the underlying structure. Once set, it is functionally and even materially indistinguishable from plastic.

Plastic toe and heel stiffeners are already set to whatever shape they were manufactured in--which may or may not be perfectly congruent with the lasts or shoes being made.

Leatherboard is a composite...like particle board...and is leather in name only, esp. with regard to the more salubrious and worthwhile characteristics of leather.

--

Sure. Might be a language thing, but here in Sweden I've learned to distinguish it (now directly translated) plastic/thermoplastic -> Celastic -> leatherboard -> leather. But yes Celastic is plastic, like I write, plastic impregnated fabric.

Leatherboard is composite yes, but of course its called what it's called since it consists of leather shavings (think that's the English word for it).
post #13630 of 20248
Quote:
Originally Posted by j ingevaldsson View Post

Sure. Might be a language thing, but here in Sweden I've learned to distinguish it (now directly translated) plastic/thermoplastic -> Celastic -> leatherboard -> leather. But yes Celastic is plastic, like I write, plastic impregnated fabric.

Leatherboard is composite yes, but of course its called what it's called since it consists of leather shavings (think that's the English word for it).

I understand all that...I might well have been the person that introduced both of these product to the consciousness of most on SF (how many times have I told the story of the genesis of the word "shoddy?").

But that's neither here nor there. The reason I brought it up is that to dismiss the fact that celastic is plastic is to dismiss the fundamental and limiting characteristics of either of them as compared to leather. Once in place and set, it is unchanging and will not conform to the foot short of a breakdown the plastic itself.

Similarly with leatherboard, it doesn't share the same structural integrity of leather itself. It will not mold itself to the foot or the heel or the last. The matrix that holds it together effectively prevents it from being moistened, tempering and being malleable.
post #13631 of 20248


Hi Vass experts,


Can any of you advise me on how restrictive the toe box of the R last is in comparison with the F and U last?

post #13632 of 20248

Not to prolong another plastic/leather stiffener debate, but I never gave it much thought until recently. I had a non-Vass boot where the heel stiffener on one side was cut nearly a half inch higher than the other three sides. It was just enough to constantly push into my leg/ankle bone and cause numbness after wearing all day. I tried to bend it, heat and push down with a hair dryer, etc., but it didn't help. The manufacturer agreed to take a look and decided to repair the boot. They didn't like the results and now a completely new pair is on the way. I've found customer service at the major companies to be great, but do really appreciate the methods and materials Vass uses. 

post #13633 of 20248
Check out this stitching on my two recent purchases. I assume this is unacceptable since I cannot see any stitching on my other pair of Vass, Carmina or Alden dress shoes.

I had the same issue earlier. The shoes fit great though.

[IMG][IMG]
post #13634 of 20248
More pics

post #13635 of 20248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior View Post

I was quoted 950 € for a pair of hight boots in early december.

Thanks!

On another note does anyone one have any pictures of the norweger in U last?
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