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The Official Wine Thread

ama

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Originally Posted by Piobaire
MERRY EDWARDS Sauvignon Blanc Russian River Valley 2007 A rocket beam of vibrancy...
eh.gif
 

gomestar

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Originally Posted by Manton
Bordeaux is the most underappreciated wine in this threak,

ahem, there are those who understand and appreciate how truly spectacular Bordeaux is. But sadly, our wallets do not. The best Bordeaux I've had has never been from my own spending, a shame.

One of the things that I personally love about this threak is the diversity of preferences: Johnny and I with the Italians, Pio with the Cali, PandArts with the Spanish wines, audio with his Cali cabs, Manton with the Frenchies, and then you have the handful of others that dip around from country to country an open palate to learn and explore.
 

kwilkinson

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Mantonicles, great writeup. I enjoyed reading it.
Originally Posted by Piobaire

ffffuuuu.gif


Just got Peay email for menu at Cyrus. Will. Not. Be. There.

ffffuuuu.gif


Dude this dinner is going to be the ******* bomb.


February 2nd, 2010

Amuse Bouche
Cep Rose, Sonoma Coast 2009
~
Lobster-Coconut Milk and Red Curry Soup
Rousanne “Estate”, Sonoma Coast 2007
~
Seared Scallop with Cauliflower, Crab and Uni
Chardonnay “Estate”, Sonoma Coast 2004
~
Chicken Two Ways with Potatoes and Swiss Chard
Pinot Noir “Estate”, Sonoma Coast 2004
Pinot Noir “Scallop Shelf”, Sonoma Coast 2007
~
Red Wine Truffled Risotto with Glazed Pork Cheek and Braised Cabbage
Syrah “Estate”, Sonoma Coast 2002
Syrah “La Bruma”, Sonoma Coast 2007
~
Chestnut Souffle with Passion Fruit and Green Tea
~
Mignardises

$215
 

Manton

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A final word on the classifications: they may be all effed up to some extent, but they do get the top wines right. The five first growths really do deserve to be on top, as do the two supers from St. Emilion. The unquestioned first growths would be therefore the official five (Haut-Brion, Latour, Lafite, Margaux, and Mouton) plus d'Yquem from Sauternes plus Ausone and Cheval Blanc from St. Emilion, plus Petrus from Pomerol. No one would dispute any of those.

I would add La Mission Haut-Brion from Graves and Le Pin from Pomerol and probably Leoville Las Cases, and I doubt that anyone would dispute those either.

After that, there are several in the "super second" category that I think almost make it but not quite: Cos d'Estournel, Montrose, Ducru-Beaucaillou, Palmer, Pavie, Lafleur, Angelus, and maybe some others.
 

Manton

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Originally Posted by gomestar
ahem, there are those who understand and appreciate how truly spectacular Bordeaux is. But sadly, our wallets do not.

Yeah, well, it's cheaper than Burg.
 

Piobaire

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Kyle, that's a rock bottom price for that dinner. Mrs. Piob is only half jokingly talking about flying over for it.

Gome, this thread has certainly improved my knowledge and made me get out of my comfort zone. Manton's write ups are great, you pushing the Iti's and the Didier (gloat), etc. I think some of you are valuable posters...others are on ignore.
 

gomestar

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Originally Posted by Manton

In my Burgundy Primer I wrote that bad soil makes good wine. This is true in Bordeaux too, but for a different reason. ... What makes for great Bordeaux is gravel. Gravel = drainage. Drainage makes the vines struggle. The best vineyards are all in gravelly soil, either close to one of the rivers, or to a drainage channel that empties into a river.


some further thought to this. From what my meager knowledge is, the right bank tends to have much more clay present in the soil than the left bank. This, among many other small reasons, is part of the reason these wines are Merlot driven rather than Cab driven. I couldn't explain what difference the clay makes, but I do know about the varying soil composition and it does seem to be a key factor.

Also a big distinguishing factor is root depth. On the left bank, the roots go deep, sometimes 20-25 feet. On the right bank, it's a much different story with Chateau Petrus averaging about 4.5 feet of depth into the ground. Some scientific work has shows that root depth plays no difference in wine quality. All things like vintage, canopy management, and pruning aside, drainage appears to be the most important factor at play.
 

gomestar

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Originally Posted by Piobaire
Gome, this thread has certainly improved my knowledge and made me get out of my comfort zone. Manton's write ups are great, you pushing the Iti's and the Didier (gloat), etc. I think some of you are valuable posters...others are on ignore.

once work calms down I've been debating some wine education poasts. I've been thinking about it for a while, actually. We'll see.
 

kwilkinson

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Originally Posted by gomestar
once work calms down I've been debating some wine education poasts. I've been thinking about it for a while, actually. We'll see.

"Once work calms down." PFft. Don't do us like that dawg. Throw one down tonight.
 

gomestar

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Originally Posted by kwilkinson
"Once work calms down." PFft. Don't do us like that dawg. Throw one down tonight.
I'd give you a nice paragraph, but Manton's essay would make my tiny contribution seem forced. I'll have to wait for a few pages. I'm thinking non-Barolo/Barbaresco Piedmont first. And I just got home 30 minutes ago, I need some damn dinner (decided not to order out tonight)
 

Manton

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Originally Posted by gomestar
some further thought to this. From what my meager knowledge is, the right bank tends to have much more clay present in the soil than the left bank. This, among many other small reasons, is part of the reason these wines are Merlot driven rather than Cab driven. I couldn't explain what difference the clay makes, but I do know about the varying soil composition and it does seem to be a key factor.

Also a big distinguishing factor is root depth. On the left bank, the roots go deep, sometimes 20-25 feet. On the right bank, it's a much different story with Chateau Petrus averaging about 4.5 feet of depth into the ground. Some scientific work has shows that root depth plays no difference in wine quality. All things like vintage, canopy management, and pruning aside, drainage appears to be the most important factor at play.


True, or mostly true; the scientists in Bordeaux say that root depth absolutely matters. At least, that is what I have read they said. Is that out of date?
 

Johnny_5

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Thanks for taking time to post that Manton. It was very informative and you have inspired me to drink some bordeaux this weekend.
 

james_timothy

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Originally Posted by Manton
After that, there are several in the "super second" category that I think almost make it but not quite: Cos d'Estournel, Montrose, Ducru-Beaucaillou, Palmer, Pavie, Lafleur, Angelus, and maybe some others.

Ahh, the joy of Google maps.

Those are all quite spatially localized, in two places: to the east of Bordeaux near Saint Emilion (the right bank), and, mostly, to the north west of Bordeaux right on the (left) bank of the La Gironde, near the island/sand bar.

I had the impression that the entire area around Bordeaux was wine country but the list of super seconds is really quite geographically compact.
 

gomestar

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Originally Posted by Manton
True, or mostly true; the scientists in Bordeaux say that root depth absolutely matters. At least, that is what I have read they said. Is that out of date?

I dug up where I got this info:

"Cornelis van Leeuwen has probed furhter and discovered there is no absolute correlation between how deep the roots go and how good the wine is ... Th key factor for quality is the regulation of water supply - just slightly less than the vine wants - rather than the depth of the roots, which can vary from 7m in Margaux to 2 M on the Cotes, the steep limestone hillside on top of which the town of St. Emilion perches, such as at Chateau Ausone, and just 0.4m on the plateau west of St. Emilion"

Wine atlas, P. 85
 

gomestar

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Originally Posted by james_timothy
I had the impression that the entire area around Bordeaux was wine country but the list of super seconds is really quite geographically compact.

the entire area around Bordeaux IS wine country as it produces a huge number of wines.

But the very best Chateaus are all concentrated around the river in some way and are very close to each other.
 

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