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The Official Wine Thread - Page 1360

post #20386 of 20671
Chateau Montelena 1986, which had been one of my favorite wines ever, is now seriously over the hill.

1994 Monte Bello is a fucking masterpiece. icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gificon_gu_b_slayer[1].gificon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif
post #20387 of 20671
Quote:
Originally Posted by agjiffy View Post

Here you go. Read "the shit you gotta understand...".

http://www.skurnik.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/SKURNIK_THEISE_Germany_2016_CATALOG.pdf

Let me be clearer. Why did you say finding these wines are difficult in the US? Predicat wines are all over the place. I understand the system very well. Your statement was just odd.
post #20388 of 20671
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Let me be clearer. Why did you say finding these wines are difficult in the US? Predicat wines are all over the place. I understand the system very well. Your statement was just odd.

Oh. Only because you can't find the Keller pradikat wines other than through Dee Vine (and their retailers) on the west coast and vom Boden on the east coast, and they don't get the full range. Like, you can find exactly zero bottles of pradikat pettenthal in the country. Maybe a spattering of other bottles at outrageous prices. But not much.
post #20389 of 20671
Quote:
Originally Posted by agjiffy View Post

Oh. Only because you can't find the Keller pradikat wines other than through Dee Vine (and their retailers) on the west coast and vom Boden on the east coast, and they don't get the full range. Like, you can find exactly zero bottles of pradikat pettenthal in the country. Maybe a spattering of other bottles at outrageous prices. But not much.

Ah, gotcha now, makes sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by agjiffy View Post

Yes - German wine classification system for wines with residual sugar (as opposed to dry wines). Will find a terry thiese summary and link it after dinner. He's better than I can do.

Btw, the QmP system is not about RS but rather about ripeness level at harvest.
post #20390 of 20671
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Ah, gotcha now, makes sense.
Btw, the QmP system is not about RS but rather about ripeness level at harvest.

No, not quite. Ripeness dictates oeschle at harvest and is the first step in the pradikat system. Then comes harvesting technique and a minimum alcohol level. And within oeschle levels producers have enormous ability to differentiate their cuvees with stars, capsules and goldkapsels. My experience is that producers are selecting their offerings based on the final product and the amount of residual sugar.
post #20391 of 20671
Quote:
Originally Posted by agjiffy View Post

No, not quite. Ripeness dictates oeschle at harvest and is the first step in the pradikat system. Then comes harvesting technique and a minimum alcohol level.

Yes, yes, must weight and minimum ETOH, but as no chapitalization is allowed, that's all a function of grape sugar content, i.e. ripeness, at harvest. It is certainly not about RS which is what you said.
post #20392 of 20671
Confusing sometimes because you can have sweet auslese and dry auslese (depending on acid) - I've seen some 2015s with 10g+ acid

And I can only find 3 or 4 different Kellers at my local stores on the west coast, and no 14/15s. Saw a 13 of the kirchspiel, so I'll check it out
post #20393 of 20671
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Yes, yes, must weight and minimum ETOH, but as no chapitalization is allowed, that's all a function of grape sugar content, i.e. ripeness, at harvest. It is certainly not about RS which is what you said.

Sure, but that isn't what gets you pradikat level. The dry wines can start out with high sugar content. The sweet wines (outside of TBA, some BA and eiswein) result from stopping fermentation before the wine is completely dry. Name a producers who doesn't star or capsule their wines? I can't thing of any producer who would take must weight at auslese level, make an off dry wine and call it auslese. Feinherb auslese 20 years ago, but everyone I interact with sells at the level of the final product. Anything else would be misleading.

To put it another way: German dry wine = the ripeness level of German sweet wine + allowing fermentation of sugar to continue. Both the sweet and dry wine were picked at the same ripeness level. That is why the sweet wines are low alcohol: fermentation of sugar into alcohol is stopped. Ripeness level at harvest is the same.
post #20394 of 20671
Quote:
Originally Posted by agjiffy View Post

Sure, but that isn't what gets you pradikat level. The dry wines can start out with high sugar content. The sweet wines (outside of TBA, some BA and eiswein) result from stopping fermentation before the wine is completely dry. Name a producers who doesn't star or capsule their wines? I can't thing of any producer who would take must weight at auslese level, make an off dry wine and call it auslese. Feinherb auslese 20 years ago, but everyone I interact with sells at the level of the final product. Anything else would be misleading.

To put it another way: German dry wine = the ripeness level of German sweet wine + allowing fermentation of sugar to continue. Both the sweet and dry wine were picked at the same ripeness level.

All wines with high RS and low ETOH have had their fermentation stopped.

I've had more than one bone dry Auslese and many Feinherb.

But this is all just beyond the point that QmP is not about RS...which again...is what you said.
post #20395 of 20671
Quote:
Originally Posted by venividivicibj View Post

And I can only find 3 or 4 different Kellers at my local stores on the west coast, and no 14/15s. Saw a 13 of the kirchspiel, so I'll check it out

I think the bulk of the Keller dry wines have yet to hit the states. The sweet wines generally won't. 90% of my buying is in London but I've tried to add Keller and haven't had success. The 14s are well worth drinking and readily available (but no sweet wines of course).
post #20396 of 20671
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

All wines with high RS and low ETOH have had their fermentation stopped.

I've had more than one bone dry Auslese and many Feinherb.

But this is all just beyond the point that QmP is not about RS...which again...is what you said.

What bone dry auslese
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

All wines with high RS and low ETOH have had their fermentation stopped.

I've had more than one bone dry Auslese and many Feinherb.

But this is all just beyond the point that QmP is not about RS...which again...is what you said.

No I didn't. I didn't say that at all. Read the quote. I said the pradikat system is the classification that governs wines with residual sugar. Show me a pradikat wine with no residual sugar?
post #20397 of 20671
Quote:
Originally Posted by agjiffy View Post

What bone dry auslese
No I didn't. I didn't say that at all. Read the quote. I said the pradikat system is the classification that governs wines with residual sugar. Show me a pradikat wine with no residual sugar?

Show you a pradikat wine with no RS? There's a crapton of trocken Kabinett. What you said is just wrong.
post #20398 of 20671
Also, sorry, I misspoke. Bone dry spatlese. I've had off-dry (haltrocken) auslese.
post #20399 of 20671
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Show you a pradikat wine with no RS? There's a crapton of trocken Kabinett. What you said is just wrong.

That is a good example of the pradikat system naming the wine based on residual sugar rather than must weight. Not sure it is used much any more now that there is a separate classification for dry wines...
post #20400 of 20671
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Also, sorry, I misspoke. Bone dry spatlese. I've had off-dry (haltrocken) auslese.

There is bone dry auslese. It's labeled auslese feinherb and no one does it anymore as far as I know now that they can label it under the dry designation.
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