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The Official Wine Thread - Page 1353

post #20281 of 20671
Quote:
Originally Posted by venividivicibj View Post

^ very possible, but wouldnt the retailer let him bring it back if it were premoxed? (assuming it wasnt bought at auction)

I think at this point most retailers simply factor it into the price of back-vintage white burgs and say "its cheap but the buyer bears the risk". You are buying a lottery ticket. That is unlikely to be a bottle that a retailer has had on the shelf for the past 12 years; rather, it is a bottle that someone sold back because they didn't want to take pre-mox risk. So the retailer has no recourse - can't take it back to the distributor - and doesn't want to deal with returns of premox'd bottles. So I think at this point everyone knows the game. But I suppose different retailers might operate differently. Probably depends on the store, the price, how good of a customer you are and how much you want to complain.
post #20282 of 20671
Quote:
Originally Posted by venividivicibj View Post

Ah, well good luck - you might be able to tell ahead of time because of the color.

Any link as to how?
post #20283 of 20671
Quote:
Originally Posted by djblisk View Post

Any link as to how?

You won't be able to tell from the color. You will be able to tell because it tastes and smells like alcoholic apple juice combined with cooking sherry; maderized and undrinkable.
post #20284 of 20671
Impressed by Mondavi Reserve 1998. Low rated, so not expensive. Smokey and deep and dry, like I like them.
post #20285 of 20671
Quote:
Originally Posted by djblisk View Post


Any link as to how?

They're usually a bit darker than they should otherwise be for that age - 

 

https://oxidised-burgs.wikispaces.com/General+Discussion

 

http://www.clive-coates.com/observations/premature-oxidation

"The oxidization of these phenols results in the colour change in white wines from light, greenish yellow to golden brown."


Edited by venividivicibj - 10/1/16 at 10:15am
post #20286 of 20671
Quote:
Originally Posted by agjiffy View Post


You won't be able to tell from the color. You will be able to tell because it tastes and smells like alcoholic apple juice combined with cooking sherry; maderized and undrinkable.

Clearly you can tell by the taste - I was explaining how you could do it before opening so as to be able to possibly return or refund if at all possible.

post #20287 of 20671
Quote:
Originally Posted by venividivicibj View Post

The K&L in hollywood had the '99 last week for only ~$19. 

Sweet Christ... it's like $45 CDN here for the 03.
post #20288 of 20671
Quote:
Originally Posted by venividivicibj View Post

Clearly you can tell by the taste - I was explaining how you could do it before opening so as to be able to possibly return or refund if at all possible.

You can't tell an oxidized white burg by the color. They may show darker, but mature burgundy develops a darker hue than young burg anyway. I've had plenty of prematurely oxidized white burgs that look fine. As to doing so before opening - that's total nonsense. White burgundy bottles are green. You can't tell the color of the wine inside by looking at the bottle.
post #20289 of 20671
Burgundy can find more ways to break your heart than any other wine region.
post #20290 of 20671
Quote:
Originally Posted by agjiffy View Post


You can't tell an oxidized white burg by the color. They may show darker, but mature burgundy develops a darker hue than young burg anyway. I've had plenty of prematurely oxidized white burgs that look fine. As to doing so before opening - that's total nonsense. White burgundy bottles are green. You can't tell the color of the wine inside by looking at the bottle.

Interesting that you're speaking in such absolutes when there is much evidence and experience by many other that runs counter. I never said judging by color was foolproof - please re-read my statements - i said "might be able" and "usually", and then provided links as well to some pretty well known Masters of Wine, etc who also support my point. 

post #20291 of 20671
Quote:
Originally Posted by venividivicibj View Post

Interesting that you're speaking in such absolutes when there is much evidence and experience by many other that runs counter. I never said judging by color was foolproof - please re-read my statements - i said "might be able" and "usually", and then provided links as well to some pretty well known Masters of Wine, etc who also support my point. 

I can't tell if you haven't read the article that you're linking or if you just don't understand it, but I've contributed quite a bit to the oxidized white burg wiki and here is what it says in what you link:

"While the combination of an oxidized color and oxidized aromas and flavors most frequently occur simultaneously, it is certainly possible to have a wine with a brilliant youthful-appearing color which exhibits oxidized aromas and flavors. Conversely, it is also possible to have a wine which exhibits considerable browning but no oxidized flavors or aromas. Personally, I’ve experienced more than one example of each."

So I'm not sure what you are talking about. Serious question - do you have a lot of experience with white burgundy?
post #20292 of 20671
Recently I attended some lectures being given by a few MS's and they mentioned it is felt the practice of battonage facilitates pre-mox. It causes free SO2 and CO2 to off gas as well as introduces O2 into what was formerly a reductive environment. Not claiming any expertise on the topic of Burgundy pre-mox but repeating what I was told by the MS lecturers.
post #20293 of 20671
^ no one has been able to definitely determine a cause yet, but I think lees stirring is widely thought to contribute. However, roulot has a pretty good premox record and he stirs. I think the best guess right now is it results from a combination of winemaking practices that are intended to reduce exposure to oxygen and actually have the effect of making the wine more susceptible to oxygen. So now you see Burgundians browning the must before fermentation (maybe it's no coincidence that coche dury has always done this and his wines aren't affected by premox). The Germans have typically done this and they don't appear to be suffering from premox.
post #20294 of 20671
Based on what I've read and been told by the experts it seems like that time period in the 90s was a perfect storm. Heavy battonage, bad corks, and a move by many producers to greatly lower the amount of SO2 used at bottling. I've also heard it was a "collapse of the middle" type thing as producers were trying to put out wines that would drink young yet still be age worthy. It seems that's a tough thing to do with Chardonnay (if not white wines in general.) Sometimes one really cannot have it both ways.
post #20295 of 20671
That's the hypotheses. The problem with it is that even as those trends have been reversed premox continues. I've had premoxed wines from the '09 vintage from producers who have changed the practices that you are citing.
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