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The Official Wine Thread - Page 1177

post #17641 of 18181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post

I loooooove old Bord more than most, but I drink a ton of sub $15 Bord within five years of the vintage. There are some '10s that are just fine right now. They were just not made to age, and priced accordingly. I doubt these low end bottles would even last 25 years. Most can make it 10, but I don't think they get a great deal better.

IME with these cheapies (I have sampled very few upper end '09s or '10s), the '09s are better. Softer, more ready now. Sadly, they're hard to find now. '10s are still everywhere and the '11s are starting to take over. The '11s I've had so far have been pretty meh. For "off" vintages, seems to me like '06-'08 were all better.

what're some good cheapie bordeaux?
post #17642 of 18181
Not answering your question, I'm afraid, but this evening we popped the first of a case of Haut Brion '95. I'd sampled the Bahans from that year for a bit over 10 years ago, and liked it a lot-- this was a new ballgame, however. Not young, not too old-- just in its prime.

For the cheaper end of things, it depends on what you mean by cheap. I've had some very nice Ormes de Pez from 2001 that didn't come at all expensively, although now it would be well over $20. There were a lot more options from 2000. One strategy is to look at Jancis Robinson's website after a really remarkable year, and cherry-pick some of the better cheap names. Parker, too, perhaps, if you tread cautiously. 2000 produced a lot of modest wines that outperformed, and I suspect that there will be many more from 2005, '09, and '10.
post #17643 of 18181
For the Canadians: Was visiting Vancouver last week and had a fantastic Okanagan Pinot. Brought a couple bottles back, but want a case. There's no US distributor.

Anyone know whether law allows for Canadian shops to ship wine to the US? I'd assume I'd get hit with duties, but I might be willing to accept that cost.
post #17644 of 18181
regarding cheap Bord, i wish availablity were consistent from store to store, region to region, or year to year, but it's not. I don't know what explains it, but at the low end, turnover seems frantic. I almost never see the same stuff consistetnly with very few exceptions, including Greysac, Larose Trintaudon, and one or two others but even these are now closer to $20 than they are to $10.

Basically, I just buy and sample randomly and then go back and buy up what I like. $10 is typically my floor and it's getting hard to find decent wine at $10, at least reds, but <$15 is still doable. I haven't really started drinking '11s yet and I won't as long as I can still get '10s and especially '09s

Please note that this "strategy" may not work if you don't like cheap Bord, but I love it above all else.
post #17645 of 18181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post

I don't know what explains it, but at the low end, turnover seems frantic.

my guess, which is probably wrong, is that this is due to the distributors. They see a good deal on a good quantity cheap AOC Bord, and they buy a bunch of cases on the cheap and then flip them to some stores that'll load up on them at the cheap (but overall a good profit for each side). The store then works their way through the 50 cases they had to buy, and the distributor looks for another solid deal, be it Rhone or Provence or whatever. A deal pops up, repeat. "What was that cheap Bord we found last year?" Who knows, it's deal by deal.
post #17646 of 18181
If you catch the barrel tasting reviews, you can sometimes snag something good in futures. In 2005 I got a case of very cheap halves from the guy who operates Cheval Blanc. The problem is that cheap vineyards are cheap for a reason. Either the land is second rate or management is not so hot, or both. So the combination of lucky factors that makes them hit above their weight in one vintage might not come about in the next miracle year.
post #17647 of 18181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post

regarding cheap Bord, i wish availablity were consistent from store to store, region to region, or year to year, but it's not. I don't know what explains it, but at the low end, turnover seems frantic. I almost never see the same stuff consistetnly with very few exceptions, including Greysac, Larose Trintaudon, and one or two others but even these are now closer to $20 than they are to $10.

Basically, I just buy and sample randomly and then go back and buy up what I like. $10 is typically my floor and it's getting hard to find decent wine at $10, at least reds, but <$15 is still doable. I haven't really started drinking '11s yet and I won't as long as I can still get '10s and especially '09s

Please note that this "strategy" may not work if you don't like cheap Bord, but I love it above all else.
This is exactly what I do, find something good and buy a few cases. Chances are you'll never see it again.

Big discount places like Warehouse wines are good places to try out cheap Bordeaux. You will likely try a lot of crap, but it's worth it because you'll find some gems.
post #17648 of 18181
Quote:
Originally Posted by msg View Post

For the Canadians: Was visiting Vancouver last week and had a fantastic Okanagan Pinot. Brought a couple bottles back, but want a case. There's no US distributor.

Anyone know whether law allows for Canadian shops to ship wine to the US? I'd assume I'd get hit with duties, but I might be willing to accept that cost.

I'm not entirely sure on this matter, however some Canadian provinces operate with monopolies (ex. Ontario is LCBO and Quebec is SAQ). I'm not sure which province you're closest to (BC?) but you may want to investigate the liquor laws in whichever province you're looking to buy from. For instance, I don't think LCBO in Ontario ships to individual addresses, let alone the States. Could be different in B.C. though.

Hope that helps.

post #17649 of 18181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post

regarding cheap Bord, i wish availablity were consistent from store to store, region to region, or year to year, but it's not. I don't know what explains it, but at the low end, turnover seems frantic. I almost never see the same stuff consistetnly with very few exceptions, including Greysac, Larose Trintaudon, and one or two others but even these are now closer to $20 than they are to $10.

Basically, I just buy and sample randomly and then go back and buy up what I like. $10 is typically my floor and it's getting hard to find decent wine at $10, at least reds, but <$15 is still doable. I haven't really started drinking '11s yet and I won't as long as I can still get '10s and especially '09s

Please note that this "strategy" may not work if you don't like cheap Bord, but I love it above all else.

I love cheap, good Bord. I've gone through almost two cases of 2010 Ch. Subilaux while waiting for my 2009 Ch Lannesan to mature. I found the Subilaux on a distributor deal my local wine shop had for 9.99 but I always taste a bottle before purchasing cases. They are also where I picked up the Lannesan futures. I used to buy a lot of petite Bordeaux back in the 1980s and Lannesan was one of the most consistent in good years. The prices doubled since the 1980s but that is good value now.

post #17650 of 18181
I was recently gifted a chunk of someone's private collection. There are many first growths and other rarities, but I'm trying to decide to do with a few things that are very low rated or possibly expired. Is there a market for high-wine wine that is well-known to have gone bad or been of poor quality? I see Parker rates a few things very low (89, 90 Mouton), yet the price is still estimated to be around $200 a bottle. I have have a vertical of 80s Mondavi reserve, many of which, aside from the 87, are low rated or old. Again, prices still list upwards of $100 a bottle.
post #17651 of 18181
Have you considered opening some of these and trying them yourself?
post #17652 of 18181
or the fact that some of the "very low rated" first growths are still expensive because they're still awesome wines.
post #17653 of 18181
Yes, I've had the 89 and 90 Mouton. You can read the reviews for yourself. My personal experiences were no better. Regardless, I'll put them up at auction and see if anyone bites.
post #17654 of 18181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Recoil View Post

Yes, I've had the 89 and 90 Mouton. You can read the reviews for yourself. My personal experiences were no better. Regardless, I'll put them up at auction and see if anyone bites.

Serious question: private individuals can auction wine in Canada now?
post #17655 of 18181
i can't remember the last time i read a wine review, maybe 4-5 years with thousands of wines tasted/consumed in between. Vintage overviews, yes, but not wine reviews.
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