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The Official Wine Thread - Page 984

post #14746 of 17723
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Tokaj. IMO, nice QPR when you're in the mood.

Yep- can be widely variant but never had one I thought was undrinkable.

The odd Italian variant on Tokaj/Tokai can be nice as well.
post #14747 of 17723
Quote:
Originally Posted by b1os View Post

Have you guys had any Hungarian wines (whites)?
I've had few wines made from Furmint, the grape that is the basis for the Tokaji dessert wines. Dry or sweet, I have enjoyed them.
post #14748 of 17723
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolpapa View Post

Big shakeup at the Wine Advocate:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324024004578169492614023194.html
May have to google story if the link requires a subscription. To summarize:
Moving the operation to Singapore, selling a significant stake to Asian investors, will discontinue print version, and will begin accepting limited advertising.
As long as they keep advocating wines I don't like, I am fine with all of this.
Actually, fwiw, from Parker's twitter account:
"no plans to eliminate the print edition"
"The Wine Advocate print edition will never take on ads. looking into non wine ads like investment co, leisure on BB & selectively on web"
"Lisa [in Singapore] is the perfect person to do the day to day editing while I continue to focus on Bordeaux, Rhone, retros of CA & the big picture"
post #14749 of 17723
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cary Grant View Post

2008 Lan what? They have several.

2008 Lan Crianza.
This wonderful cold and flu season got the best of me this weekend, but I have a few bottles that I'm looking forward to trying once I feel better.
I've found a lot of great value in the Southern Rhone too. $15 will usually get you a nice wine that doesn't taste like a fruit bomb. I've been going through different old world regions at the $15 price point, and so far Southern Rhone has been the winner. It's been a fun experiment!
post #14750 of 17723
Quote:
Originally Posted by b1os View Post

Actually, fwiw, from Parker's twitter account:
"no plans to eliminate the print edition"
"The Wine Advocate print edition will never take on ads. looking into non wine ads like investment co, leisure on BB & selectively on web"
"Lisa [in Singapore] is the perfect person to do the day to day editing while I continue to focus on Bordeaux, Rhone, retros of CA & the big picture"
He could use a publicist if he doesn't have one. He seems to fuck up most announcements/changes/controversies in recent years. Not that it matters with his subscribers, but they could certainly handle this stuff better.
post #14751 of 17723
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post

Re: value, the vast, vast majority of what I buy is red Bord and white Bord and Burg. Obviously there are no values in the big name appellations but I find plenty of value in Bord Sup and districts no one cares about and also in Macon, Chablis and other low-end (or low-priced) white Burg regions. Values as in, really excellent (91 points!) bottles for $15 and perfectly fine daily drinkers for $12 and under, even $10 and under. I'm currently working through a second case of 2007 Bord-Sup that I got for $6 a bottle. Impossible to replicate that anywhere else. A second current case of a different 2004, for which I paid around $14/bottle, drinks like a $35 California Cab. Sometimes I think even $50.
The only other country which has so much to offer on the low end is Italy. I just know France better and generally prefer the styles. I tend to buy Italian wine only for drinking with Italian style food and my cooking style is basically French. I like quite a few CA wines but few are values, the best you can do is "worth the money." There are no values in CA for a daily drinker red IME and for whites decent stulf starts at $12. Plenty of white Bord sub $10 that is A-OK (though no white Burg).
I don't know a great deal about the rest of France but I also find values in low-end red Rhone and white Loire. Madiran is a favorite lately too. In the summer I drink Provence Rose, same price points, same level of satisfaction. In fact, the only wine in France that is consistently NOT a value is red Burg where at best you get what you paid for.
So, IMO, France absolutely is THE home of wine values on planet earth.

17 years ago I was being offered great French wine at 4 - $7 a bottle which I couldn't buy because they wouldn't sell. Actually bought them for house wine. It was only Burg, Bord, and Chateau Neuf that sold. Now those same wines are around $20. Triple or more in 15 years? That's not really value to me. So wines you are considering at $14 a bottle were probably $5 back then.

The last American wine I had was 2 years ago and it was a Virginia wine, wasn't as bad as you might guess, but in general US product is not to my taste so I ignore it. I was buying CA back when but I didn't drink it, I've lost complete touch with that market. Maybe the thinking is that CA wine has gone up a lot more than French? If so, that's pretty lame considering how bad so much of CA wine can be.

Anyway, I get your point, but its hard for me to relate when I pop open a $16 Chinon that I could have bought for $4 a decade and a half ago.


Side topic, pretty nice wine cellar:

post #14752 of 17723
OK, well, 20 years ago I used to by a lot of BV Rutherford when it was $10 and, for weekends, a Mondavi Napa for $15. I can't anymore. They are now both specilal occasion wines, not even weekenders any more. So what? The price of everything has gone up.

The point is, for drinking today, where can you find the highest number of serviceable $8-$15 wines, including reds with ~5 years of bottle age? The answer is France, hands down. Second place is Italy. No other country is in the game.

The fact that some of them used to be $5 is irrelevant because all $5 wine today is shit, with certain Italian exceptions that are merely vapid but not terrible (mostly Valpolicella and Montepulciano). But for $6, I found a quite decent red Bord with 6 years on it.
post #14753 of 17723
@idfnl: confused.gif
post #14754 of 17723
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post

OK, well, 20 years ago I used to by a lot of BV Rutherford when it was $10 and, for weekends, a Mondavi Napa for $15. I can't anymore. They are now both specilal occasion wines, not even weekenders any more. So what? The price of everything has gone up.
The point is, for drinking today, where can you find the highest number of serviceable $8-$15 wines, including reds with ~5 years of bottle age? The answer is France, hands down. Second place is Italy. No other country is in the game.
The fact that some of them used to be $5 is irrelevant because all $5 wine today is shit, with certain Italian exceptions that are merely vapid but not terrible (mostly Valpolicella and Montepulciano). But for $6, I found a quite decent red Bord with 6 years on it.

Historical price is relevant because its a component of how I judge value. You may see a $15 bottle as value, but to me it seems expensive as shit. Maybe you can get the historical marker out of your head but I can't. Its gotten pricey considering what that $15 could have gotten me back then. And I need to put a lot more effort in to finding good stuff in that price point. Unless your time doesn't enter into the equation either?

I think Spain needs to be added to the list for serviceable daily drinking. Its the #3 producer in the world and many regions are totally unexplored. To me, its #1 on the value chart. Portugal as well, although to a more limited degree just because of the smaller amount of cultivated land. Sicily to that list also. Strange, I find Italian bargains pretty regularly, bought 2 cases of an '05 Montefalcao in the spring for a super cheap $9 a bottle then I fucked up by forgetting the 2nd case was in the garage when it got hot.

I buy similar stuff to you, but it seems like we perceive the purchase differently.
post #14755 of 17723
Quote:
Originally Posted by b1os View Post

@idfnl: confused.gif

You're so cool. Please give me a thumbs up, just once so people will like me.
post #14756 of 17723
Quote:
Originally Posted by idfnl View Post

You're so cool. Please give me a thumbs up, just once so people will like me.
That depends entirely upon you.

Having another bottle of Santa Cristina rosato. Hearty/spicy rosé. Medium fruitiness. I like. Good value.
post #14757 of 17723
One could get dinner at L'Ambroisie for $65 in 1987.
post #14758 of 17723
Quote:
Originally Posted by ehkay View Post

One could get dinner at L'Ambroisie for $65 in 1987.

Including five dollars worth of wine?
post #14759 of 17723
Cheateau de Cruzeau 2009 Blanc tonight with tomatoes+mozarina, trout for me/salmon for the gf, & quinoa.
only on my first glass, but first impressions are that it is very nicely balanced and a lovely drink.
post #14760 of 17723
Quote:
Originally Posted by idfnl View Post

Historical price is relevant because its a component of how I judge value. You may see a $15 bottle as value, but to me it seems expensive as shit.

So today $15 is "expensive as shit." A couple days ago it was:
Quote:
Originally Posted by idfnl View Post

Value wine.
Vastly underappreciated region, La Mancha, fabulous wine. 2010 Vover Temperanillo from Spain. Stashing a case, this will age very well.
Excellent balance, spice, and regional deference. Cannot be topped for $15 a bottle.

WTF_3e6385_474933.jpg
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