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The Official Wine Thread - Page 815

post #12211 of 17672
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaesarSTL View Post

I would have to check the cork collection, but quite certain that Chablis is one I've had and very much enjoyed; either way, sounds like a nice night!
Recently opened an 07 Andrew Will Ciel du Cheval for the girlfriend's parents, I had similar feelings as you and just loved it... too bad the gf's father considered it too "strong"... o the French....

And I love that it is west coast and not a fruit bomb. I try not to give in to hyperbole but the quote you hear about them as "the Gaja of North America..." I'm not going to argue FWIW.
post #12212 of 17672
Thread Starter 
Another vote for Andrew Will. Lots of great wine to taste at his Seattle room.
post #12213 of 17672
467

From last night. 2006 Carr Cabernet Franc. Carr Vineyards is apparently one of the top-flight growers in Santa Barbara County and this is their label. Its from Three Creek Vineyard in the Santa Ynez Valley, and is a good example of a high alcohol wine that hides it really well (15% abv.)

Great example of what Cabernet Franc can do on its own - a powerful, classy wine. I really enjoyed it, though even at 6 years old, there was a lot of what must have been new oak. Plenty of acidity, very dry - no RS or overload of jammy berry flavors. I just wish I had another bottle to evaluate critically - I opened it after dinner during a lively and entertaining discussion with very good friends, but really thats one of the best possible scenarios in which to enjoy a good bottle of wine. I think there's definitely a case to be made for domestic Cabernet Franc.
post #12214 of 17672
What does one mean when they use jammy to describe a wine? Is is self-explanitory, really?
post #12215 of 17672
Sort of, yes. Think stereotypical Aussie shiraz. Very cooked fruit flavors, as opposed to fresh.



In particular, when I think about jammy wines, I'm thinking about wines that, even if they are dry in terms of sugar, there is so much fruit flavor (from having been picked extremely ripe) that they are likely to taste sweet anyway.
post #12216 of 17672
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

What does one mean when they use jammy to describe a wine? Is is self-explanitory, really?

Pretty self explanatory.

Okay, I'm going to venture into perilous territory for me, as I know there are many people that read this with magnitudes more knowledge than me.

I think jammyness tends to happen in overripe or very ripe wines. Glycerol happens in higher concentrations the higher the ABV as after ETOH and CO2 glycerol is one of the main byproducts of fermentation. It would therefore make sense to think high ETOH wines tend to have higher glycerol. Glycerol gives a sweet taste to wine, even to dry wine. There is also some talk about it adding to a more viscous mouth feel but I do not know if that is true or not. Either way glycerol is often used in foods to make them more viscous, so again, this would make sense to me.

So overripe/very ripe wines will have lots of fruit flavours. Add in high glycerol, which does add a sensation of sweetness and may give a sensation of viscousity, and you get "jammy."

Again, could be totally talking out of my ass.
post #12217 of 17672
^^^

that's a really fancy way of saying a wine smells like a jar of currant jam, and accordingly we label it jammy.
post #12218 of 17672
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Pretty self explanatory.
Okay, I'm going to venture into perilous territory for me, as I know there are many people that read this with magnitudes more knowledge than me.
I think jammyness tends to happen in overripe or very ripe wines. Glycerol happens in higher concentrations the higher the ABV as after ETOH and CO2 glycerol is one of the main byproducts of fermentation. It would therefore make sense to think high ETOH wines tend to have higher glycerol. Glycerol gives a sweet taste to wine, even to dry wine. There is also some talk about it adding to a more viscous mouth feel but I do not know if that is true or not. Either way glycerol is often used in foods to make them more viscous, so again, this would make sense to me.
So overripe/very ripe wines will have lots of fruit flavours. Add in high glycerol, which does add a sensation of sweetness and may give a sensation of viscousity, and you get "jammy."
Again, could be totally talking out of my ass.

Basically, I think you're right. For reference, go to page 38-39 here. This is a great text on wine.

http://books.google.com/books?id=tNSL7evYkOUC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
post #12219 of 17672
When somebody refers to wine as "jammy" is it always in a negative context? I mean I would call some beaujolais jammy, but I could definitely see how somebody could describe cab franc as jammy (darker ripe fruit, over lighter ripe fruit).
post #12220 of 17672
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

When somebody refers to wine as "jammy" is it always in a negative context? I mean I would call some beaujolais jammy, but I could definitely see how somebody could describe cab franc as jammy (darker ripe fruit, over lighter ripe fruit).


This will be facepalm worthy:

I think if you dislike "jammy" wines you tend to use it as a negative. If you like jammy wines you use it as a positive.

Okay, that was facepalm.gif

However, I don't think it's off base.
post #12221 of 17672
I mean, it makes sense. I have been at wine shops that have those little taste descriptions for each bottle. I recall a long time ago seeing one that only read, "JAMMY!!!"
post #12222 of 17672
There's a "jam jar' shiraz.

There's also a difference between dark fruit (black currants, black raspberries, etc) and super cooked-tasting fruit.
post #12223 of 17672
Besides, "shit" how would you describe beaujolais nouveau?

That link just takes me to this page..
post #12224 of 17672
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

When somebody refers to wine as "jammy" is it always in a negative context? I mean I would call some beaujolais jammy, but I could definitely see how somebody could describe cab franc as jammy (darker ripe fruit, over lighter ripe fruit).

No, it is not always in a negative context.
 

In my opinion, a Cabernet Franc is not quite yet into the jammy side of the aroma and flavor spectrum. 

A Shiraz, perhaps?  Something with more of a dark plum or black fig aroma and flavor?

 

Ciao !

 

 

 

post #12225 of 17672
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

When somebody refers to wine as "jammy" is it always in a negative context? I mean I would call some beaujolais jammy, but I could definitely see how somebody could describe cab franc as jammy (darker ripe fruit, over lighter ripe fruit).


I have been to wine tastings, restaurants, and have read articles wherein the term jammy has been used.

And it bothers me to no end, old sport, considering jammy should not, nor should ever be, included in the sommelier's lexicon.

 

Which may be why this argot nouveau is widely construed as being negative.

 

Ciao !

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