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Bourgogne vs. Bordeaux - Page 3

post #31 of 39
I heard that, got it in an email actually. Have not been to Princeton in a couple of years so don't know what their new setup is like.

Yes, I like it the Landau.
post #32 of 39
Thread Starter 
Ozzy wine is:
1. Sweet
2. Rich
3. For lack of a better word, fake

I don't call it elitisim, I call it personal taste. Give me a 3 pound L-R over a 40 pound Ozzy Shiraz any day.
You say that Bougogne tastes nothing like it smells, and I totally agree with you. If I wanted the wine to actually taste like red berries and lavender, I would drink New World wine. But this is why New World wine is IMO fake. The aroma, or more properly the nose, is not supposed to have an effect on the taste. This is not wine, this is a flavored alcoholic beverage. Wine is supposed to taste like the grape(s) from which it is made. The nose is just another part of enjoying the wine, in France and Lebanon, and to a lesser extent Italy and Spain, the nose is an effect of terroir, Lebanese wine reeks of Cedar, L-Rs of Rosemary, New World wine seems to have no relation to terroir at all, and this IMO is not even wine. True, some French wine can be a very aquired taste, bone dry, lacking any lusture, but then is that not the case with any fine food? Especially French, take Foie Gras, Snails, Moules, etc.
In a way, a good Aussie wine (like a 1990 Grange Penfolds, which I have drunk before) is like a Wagyu Beef hamburger, with Pie D'Anglous cheese, and Wiltshire Bacon, its all well and good, but when you put that much money and quality produce into it, who wants to eat a Hamburger?
Cheap Aussie wine IMO is not drinkable, again I will say it, when I can get a good L-R for 3 pounds, why do I want a Aussie wine for 10 pounds which I cannot drink.
I actually like very dry wines, like a young Barolo, you find me an Aussie wine like this, and I'm all ears.
post #33 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger02
This, along with your promotion of Yellowtail (one of my least favorite wines, anywhere) suggests that you and I do not have the same taste buds. Parker prefers New World and newfangled to Grand Crus anyway. I'm with whoopee and in some ways bouji. My favorites are relatively arcane St Emilions and Languedocs. After everything Italian that is

Tom

Tom, this is patent nonsense! Where have I "promoted" yellowtail? You can hardly even find it in Australia! I simply listed it in as an example of a very successful wine in the under US$7 category. no more, no less.

You are also wrong on Parker. I have two of his books in front of me - Parker's Wine Buying guide and The world's greatest Wine Estates where he conclusively and categorically states that red burgundy is the be-all and end-all when it comes to pinot, especially Leroy and Dugat-Py.

I agree our taste buds may differ however, and that can only be a wonderful thing. Wine is very subjective.
post #34 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bouji
Ozzy wine is:
1. Sweet
2. Rich
3. For lack of a better word, fake

I don't call it elitisim, I call it personal taste. Give me a 3 pound L-R over a 40 pound Ozzy Shiraz any day.
You say that Bougogne tastes nothing like it smells, and I totally agree with you. If I wanted the wine to actually taste like red berries and lavender, I would drink New World wine. But this is why New World wine is IMO fake. The aroma, or more properly the nose, is not supposed to have an effect on the taste. This is not wine, this is a flavored alcoholic beverage. Wine is supposed to taste like the grape(s) from which it is made. The nose is just another part of enjoying the wine, in France and Lebanon, and to a lesser extent Italy and Spain, the nose is an effect of terroir, Lebanese wine reeks of Cedar, L-Rs of Rosemary, New World wine seems to have no relation to terroir at all, and this IMO is not even wine. True, some French wine can be a very aquired taste, bone dry, lacking any lusture, but then is that not the case with any fine food? Especially French, take Foie Gras, Snails, Moules, etc.
In a way, a good Aussie wine (like a 1990 Grange Penfolds, which I have drunk before) is like a Wagyu Beef hamburger, with Pie D'Anglous cheese, and Wiltshire Bacon, its all well and good, but when you put that much money and quality produce into it, who wants to eat a Hamburger?
Cheap Aussie wine IMO is not drinkable, again I will say it, when I can get a good L-R for 3 pounds, why do I want a Aussie wine for 10 pounds which I cannot drink.
I actually like very dry wines, like a young Barolo, you find me an Aussie wine like this, and I'm all ears.

You're right Bouji, it's not elitism, it's not even "personal taste"; it's just plain wrong and ridiculous! Bouji, if you are going to make gross and vast generalisations and patently absurd statements like you have above (misconstrued as "fact") then go ahead but do not expect an intelligent reply. You yourself admitted earlier you have had little experience with Australian wine, and only at cheap end. Now apparently you have had 90 Grange too. Well, there are 2,300 wineries in Australia. How many of these wineries have you tasted? I would give your argument more "credence" if you actually had some semblance of experience with Australian wine, which you clearly lack. Australia does not make a singular style as you would have it. it is just as diverse as any wine region in the world. I'm not being aggressive or overtly critical, just flummoxed that you would make the statements you have with so little experience of the Australian wines. Don't even get me started on Terroir (Australia shows no terroir? What a joke! Tell that to Barossa shiraz makers, Margaret River cabernet, Hunter Valley semillon, Clare Valley shiraz, Coonawarra cabernet, etc I have been drinking wine for over 25 years from around the world and worked in the industry for 7 years and Australia shows telltale terroir as good as any other gloabl region). Oh, I am Lebanese so I am more than familiar with that wine such as Musar, Kefraya etc. in fact I have Musar back to the 1970s! But if you simply don't like the aussie wines you have tasted, then that is fine. Just as I despise and find undrinkable the cheap L-R which you like (obviously faulty but, aha, its the terroir say the french!). Just please don't not tarnish the whole country's wine reputation with the same brush given your very limited experience.
post #35 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Chickpea
Tom, this is patent nonsense! Where have I "promoted" yellowtail? You can hardly even find it in Australia! I simply listed it in as an example of a very successful wine in the under US$7 category. no more, no less.
OK, guess I misunderstood when you said "Australia is streets ahead (qualitatively and quantitatively) of everyone when it comes to the under US$7 category (to wit: Jacobs Creek, Yellowtail, etc)". Successful yes, tasty no. I'll take ANY $5 chianti over Yellowtail.

Quote:
I agree our taste buds may differ however, and that can only be a wonderful thing. Wine is very subjective.
Definitely! Not liking oak works out in my favor. With a little bit of work, I can find great wines MUCH cheaper than Parker's faves. Chateau Brun and Sol du Lan'doc, for two.

Tom
post #36 of 39
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Chickpea
You're right Bouji, it's not elitism, it's not even "personal taste"; it's just plain wrong and ridiculous! Bouji, if you are going to make gross and vast generalisations and patently absurd statements like you have above (misconstrued as "fact") then go ahead but do not expect an intelligent reply. You yourself admitted earlier you have had little experience with Australian wine, and only at cheap end. Now apparently you have had 90 Grange too. Well, there are 2,300 wineries in Australia. How many of these wineries have you tasted? I would give your argument more "credence" if you actually had some semblance of experience with Australian wine, which you clearly lack. Australia does not make a singular style as you would have it. it is just as diverse as any wine region in the world. I'm not being aggressive or overtly critical, just flummoxed that you would make the statements you have with so little experience of the Australian wines. Don't even get me started on Terroir (Australia shows no terroir? What a joke! Tell that to Barossa shiraz makers, Margaret River cabernet, Hunter Valley semillon, Clare Valley shiraz, Coonawarra cabernet, etc I have been drinking wine for over 25 years from around the world and worked in the industry for 7 years and Australia shows telltale terroir as good as any other gloabl region). Oh, I am Lebanese so I am more than familiar with that wine such as Musar, Kefraya etc. in fact I have Musar back to the 1970s! But if you simply don't like the aussie wines you have tasted, then that is fine. Just as I despise and find undrinkable the cheap L-R which you like (obviously faulty but, aha, its the terroir say the french!). Just please don't not tarnish the whole country's wine reputation with the same brush given your very limited experience.

Yes, my experience with Australian wine is low, but my above post is certainly my reflection on all that I've tried, including the 90 Grange.
post #37 of 39
I prefer Burgs overall, but am also a huge fan of Bordeaux. Both are well represented in my cellar and I am currently drinking '88-90 Burgs and '78-90 Bordeaux. I am surprised that no one mentioned Rhones, nothing goes better with a rare grilled steak than a nicely aged Hermitage or Cote Rotie (ok, maybe a Brunello di Montalcino or a Silver Oak cab).

Bordeaux does produce some exceptional whites other than Sauternes, but they are wildly expensive, and you can almost always find a respectable white Burg on sale (eg I recently got a couple of cases of Laroche '00 1er Cru Vaillons for $20/btl) whereas good white Bordeaux are almost never on sale.
post #38 of 39
I have about 500 bottles in storage which I dip into from time to time. I've bought them depending on the vintage; for 2000 I bought 20 cases in futures. Now I buy only a case now and again. I think I've tasted enough burgundy and pinot noir as opposed to bordeaux and cabernet to know what I prefer. I do like the deep bodied wines; day to day I drink Beringer knights valley 2001 cab.

jrandyv
post #39 of 39
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by saint
I prefer Burgs overall, but am also a huge fan of Bordeaux. Both are well represented in my cellar and I am currently drinking '88-90 Burgs and '78-90 Bordeaux. I am surprised that no one mentioned Rhones, nothing goes better with a rare grilled steak than a nicely aged Hermitage or Cote Rotie (ok, maybe a Brunello di Montalcino or a Silver Oak cab).

Bordeaux does produce some exceptional whites other than Sauternes, but they are wildly expensive, and you can almost always find a respectable white Burg on sale (eg I recently got a couple of cases of Laroche '00 1er Cru Vaillons for $20/btl) whereas good white Bordeaux are almost never on sale.

I do not like Rhone.
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