or Connect
Styleforum › Forums › General › Current Events, Power and Money › Minimum wage or minimum guaranteed income?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Minimum wage or minimum guaranteed income? - Page 11

post #151 of 160
Brooks, read that stuff too. If I remember right a lot of that data was actually locked up until recently.

Now, to what I said above, notice in your quote there for example an 8.5% drop in hospitalizations. Not a complete cessation. So as I said merely pointing to the cost of housing, subtracting that from the overall estimated social burden, and declaring that the delta is specious. I'm not saying that cost savings might not happen but I think you can see the gross over-estimation of it going on.
post #152 of 160

You're confusing me a bit here, do you think I'm trying to argue for a complete cessation of hospital visits? Obviously impossible.

 

I am skeptical of the numbers given, but the housing is not completely free. The Utah article states that the tenant must pay $50 or 30% of whatever income they have, dependent on which number is greater.

post #153 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooksLauren77 View Post

You're confusing me a bit here, do you think I'm trying to argue for a complete cessation of hospital visits? Obviously impossible.

I am skeptical of the numbers given, but the housing is not completely free. The Utah article states that the tenant must pay $50 or 30% of whatever income they have, dependent on which number is greater.

I'm just pointing out the obvious facts that demonstrate the alleged savings are not nearly the magnitude the authors are alleging.
post #154 of 160

Gotcha. Like I said, I was skeptical of the numbers given. The 42k savings claimed made me furrow my eyebrows at first. I'm slow.

post #155 of 160

Adam Smith, March 9, 1776, An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations

Quote:

A man must always live by his work, and his wages must at least be sufficient to maintain him. They must even upon most occasions be somewhat more; otherwise it would be impossible for him to bring up a family, and the race of such workmen could not last beyond the first generation.

 

 

Quote:

I am conscious that an equal division of property is impracticable. But the consequences of this enormous inequality producing so much misery to the bulk of mankind, legislators cannot invent too many devices for subdividing property, only taking care to let their subdivisions go hand in hand with the natural affections of the human mind. Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions of property in geometrical progression as they rise. Whenever there is in any country, uncultivated lands and unemployed poor, it is clear that the laws of property have been so far extended as to violate natural right. The earth is given as a common stock for man to labor and live on.

Thomas Jefferson, Letter to James Madison, October 28, 1785

post #156 of 160

If there was an argument for MGI, near total automation of labour is one.

 

http://borgenproject.org/increased-automation-mean-laborers/

 

Quote:
AI are quickly developing the ability to do tasks as well as and better than humans, albeit usually narrowly specialized tasks. Driving cars, manufacturing goods, finding patterns in data, even winning jeopardy – AI technology is assuredly forging ahead. If AI are going to be able to do these tasks, where does that leave the truck driver, the factory worker, the lawyer, accountants and others? These are millions of jobs that could be eliminated in rapid succession, potentially creating a situation of chronic high structural unemployment amongst people in their prime working years.

 

Quote:
Some believe that the current situation of worldwide income inequality could become aggravated even further by AI-caused automation of jobs. Fewer jobs could lead to further concentration of wealth and an unhealthy economic balance. The prospect of less work to be done, fewer jobs and fewer ways to make money seems to bode poorly for fighting the cycles of poverty.

http://anewworldsociety.ning.com/profiles/blogs/poverty-is-exploding-in-america-while-the-rich-are-getting-richer

 

Quote:
What are middle class families going to do as technology also takes away huge numbers of our jobs at an ever increasing pace?  We live during a period of history when knowledge is increasing an an exponential rate.  In the past, when human workers were displaced by technology it also created new kinds of jobs that the world had never seen before.  But what happens when the day arrives when computers and robots can do almost everything more cheaply and more efficiently than humans can?

Flip burgers for 1 cent an hour, still replaced by PattyFlipperTron2500.


 

Quote:

For employers, there are a whole host of advantages that come with replacing human workers with technology.  Robots and computers never complain, they never get tired, they never need vacation, they never show up late, they never waste time on Facebook, they don't need any health benefits and there are a vast array of rules, regulations and taxes that you must deal with when you hire a human worker.

If you could get a task done more cheaply and more efficiently by replacing a human worker with technology, why wouldn't you want to do it?

 

Quote:

If technology can outperform humans, it is only rational for companies to replace humans with technology.

And this is even starting to happen in fields that require very high levels of education.

 

If nobody has a job, how will businesses have customers? How will capitalism function without people selling their labour? How will people provide for themselves? How will the bourgeoisie exploit the proles? How will the poor bootstrap themselves to success?

post #157 of 160
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/minimum-income-hugh-segal-ontario-budget-1.3740373

Looks like Ontario is going to run a couple of experiments. Interesting.
post #158 of 160
@budapest12 I figure you'd be for guaranteed income?
post #159 of 160
post #160 of 160

 

This plus the Canadian experiment will be interesting - I like the idea over all the various welfare programs to be sure.

 

However, I can't help but think of all the neckbeards on /r/futurology when it comes to this stuff.  The we need universal basic income right now because no one is going to be working in 5 years after the robots take all our jobs.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Current Events, Power and Money
Styleforum › Forums › General › Current Events, Power and Money › Minimum wage or minimum guaranteed income?