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Throwing a 'knuckle Ball'

post #1 of 27
7/3/09 at 7:26am
Thread Starter 
I only learnt the other day from my American GM what a 'Knuckle Ball' is in baseball. He told me that it is the most difficult pitch in baseball and only a few pros can do it well. Anyone out there who can claim to throw one and want to explain their technique?
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post #2 of 27
7/3/09 at 7:59am
It's a funny pitch. It's not the most difficult pitch to do, in fact, it's one of the least physically taxing. It's one of the most difficult to use effectively, and there are only a few knuckleball pitchers in the major leagues. pitchers who use knuckleballs tend to use them almost exclusively. You basically hold the ball with your knuckles (hence the name) and throw it in such a way that it has no spin whatsoever as it flies through the air. compared to other pitches it is very slow, but the path it takes tends to be very unpredictable. As a result it is also a very difficult pitch to catch, so knuckleball pitchers are sometimes complemented by catchers who specialize in catching knuckleballs.
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post #3 of 27
7/3/09 at 10:12am
It's actually thrown more with the fingertips these days than with the knuckles, per se. I learned it as a kid, more with the knuckles. Here's Wakefield at the release point. You can see he uses a slightly different grip than the one above. First two fingers are flexed, ring finger lies against the ball for stability and pinky is out in space. At the release point, the flexed fingers are used to "push" the ball with little or no spin.
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post #4 of 27
7/3/09 at 12:10pm
I throw one with the same grip as shown in the top photo of the above post but instead of only digging in with two fingers, I use all four. It's also a totally different release than a fastball, curve, etc. as it's more of pushing the ball forward instead of throwing it. If you throw it well it dances all over the place and you don't know where it is going unlike any other pitch. I just play softball now so I will throw one while warming up to my unsuspecting throwing partner just to see him flail around like an idiot trying to catch it.
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post #5 of 27
7/3/09 at 12:14pm
I think throwing a 100mph fastball over the plate is harder.
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post #6 of 27
7/3/09 at 2:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by phildo View Post
I think throwing a 100mph fastball over the plate is harder.

Physically of course. But there are far more people that can throw a major league fastball than can throw an effective knuckleball.

Basically, it's like shotputting the ball, aiming to get as little spin on it and let the atmosphere do the rest.
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post #7 of 27
7/3/09 at 2:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertorex View Post
You basically hold the ball with your knuckles (hence the name) .
No. As Mark notes, you hold it with your fingertips. I think it got the name because your knuckles are sticking up and highly visible. Burt Hooton, who pitched for the Dodgers in the 1970's, made the same mistake you did, thereby inventing his own signature pitch -- the "knuckle curve".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark from Plano View Post
It's actually thrown more with the fingertips these days than with the knuckles, per se.
At the release point, the flexed fingers are used to "push" the ball with little or no spin.
Yes. It's the lack of spin (you want a little spin, actually, not truly "no" spin) that makes it "dance". It's really the same theory as a spitball. With a spitball, you're using the lubricant to make your fingers slide off the ball as you release, thereby reducing the backsping created as the ball leaves your fingers. With a knuckleball, you're doing much the same thing by way of the funky release.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BDC2823 View Post
I throw one with the same grip as shown in the top photo of the above post but instead of only digging in with two fingers, I use all four. It's also a totally different release than a fastball, curve, etc. as it's more of pushing the ball forward instead of throwing it. If you throw it well it dances all over the place and you don't know where it is going unlike any other pitch. I just play softball now so I will throw one while warming up to my unsuspecting throwing partner just to see him flail around like an idiot trying to catch it.
This, too ^.

I can throw one kinda sorta. I always considered it like my split-finger fastball and my curveball (which, like every pitch I've ever thrown or tried to throw, pretty much sucked) -- basically a demo pitch. I had the mechanics and theory down enough that I could (sometimes) generate the expected movement and thereby demonstrate to someone else how the pitch works. But as a total rag-arm, I could never thrown them with enough consistency, accuracy, or velocity (n/a with the knuckler) for them to actually be effective pitches. In other words, with some velocity, control, and consistency, I could have been a decent pitcher.
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post #8 of 27
7/3/09 at 6:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by phildo View Post
I think throwing a 100mph fastball over the plate is harder.

The fact that Matt Anderson is nowhere to be found and Tim Wakefield is still active tells me a lot.
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post #9 of 27
7/3/09 at 8:17pm
^^^ +1. THis is so true. That single pitch i guar-an-tee brought and kept wakefiled in the league. He is just an average athlete and doesnt have great stuff or great numbers. If I canteach my kid to throw a knuckler...
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post #10 of 27
7/3/09 at 8:26pm
Question for the baseball guys RE: the spit ball

I remember in that series between the Marlins and the Indians when it went up to Cleveland in that cold weather, everyone was talking about Herschiser vs Hernandez, and Orel's licking of his fingers before throwing a pitch. What was the deal with that?
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post #11 of 27
7/3/09 at 8:56pm
Spitball just allows yu to get more grip on the baseball. you can also put more movement on it this way throwing nastier cut fastballs and such. a pitcheer isn't allowed to go straight from his mouth to his glove. he must wipe his hand first before putting his hand that he just licked on the ball.
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post #12 of 27
7/3/09 at 9:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SField View Post
Question for the baseball guys RE: the spit ball

I remember in that series between the Marlins and the Indians when it went up to Cleveland in that cold weather, everyone was talking about Herschiser vs Hernandez, and Orel's licking of his fingers before throwing a pitch. What was the deal with that?


The Spitter actually allows you to put more weight on the ball thus causing it to sink more (good for getting ground balls & late movement). The spitter can be made with spit, snot, hair gel or Petrolium Jelly.

You're not allowed to go from your mouth to the ball with your hand while on the rubber on the mound. To do this, you must stand behind the rubber. In the case of Herschiser he was probably blowing on his hand to keep it warm while standing on the rubber which is illeagal.
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post #13 of 27
7/4/09 at 2:13pm
god bless Wake.. 42 and still going strong..! Almost the first 11 game winner this season if it wasn't for those pesky mariners

also, in inclement weather (when it's cold) the umpire, on occasion, will allow a pitcher to blow into his hands/fist while on the mound/rubber

also, there was a comment about a kunckler trying to get a spin on the ball. I don't think that's right. I thought they were going for zero rotation on the ball since that could disrupt the "unpredictability" of the ball?
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post #14 of 27
7/4/09 at 8:16pm
consistency is the thing. it should be telling that there are only two knuckleballers active today (wakefield and dickey).
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post #15 of 27
7/5/09 at 4:24pm
Here's a quick question. What is the minimum number of hits needed to win a baseball game?
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