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Things you just don't get - Page 846

post #12676 of 13569
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrG View Post

What is the "cause" of the violence? Cause implies that an action made something happen. Nothing the victim does makes the abuser get violent. It may make them angry, but the decision to get violent is entirely on the abuser.

Also, you can't pretend that "cause" is completely separate from things like "deserve/justify/excuse," given they all at least partially shift responsibility for the violence from the abuser to the victim.

I believe in holding people responsible for their actions and I think I have a very long track record here of holding that position. However, have you never hit someone without thinking? Has your rage never been so great, that one last input on their part, just made you lash out prior to any thought? I've hit people a couple of times where I think I was more surprised I hit them than they were. They were all men, and these were typical idiotic male situations, but the thing is I know I hit them without conscious thought to do so. Now, was it my fault for sticking around to get so worked up? For sure. Have I learned to walk away or diffuse such situations? Oh yeah. But can I imagine a situation where I honestly do not remember any conscious decision to lash out physically? Yeah, I've lived that.

Again, my fault for not handling the situation better but I know for a fact I've hit people without thinking therefore no decision to hit was made.
post #12677 of 13569
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

I believe in holding people responsible for their actions and I think I have a very long track record here of holding that position. However, have you never hit someone without thinking? Has your rage never been so great, that one last input on their part, just made you lash out prior to any thought? I've hit people a couple of times where I think I was more surprised I hit them than they were. They were all men, and these were typical idiotic male situations, but the thing is I know I hit them without conscious thought to do so. Now, was it my fault for sticking around to get so worked up? For sure. Have I learned to walk away or diffuse such situations? Oh yeah. But can I imagine a situation where I honestly do not remember any conscious decision to lash out physically? Yeah, I've lived that.

Again, my fault for not handling the situation better but I know for a fact I've hit people without thinking therefore no decision to hit was made.

Definitely been there, both with physical violence (only dudes) and with stuff like throwing/breaking things, but I don't think what you're saying conflicts with what I'm saying.

I think it potentially mitigates the "wrongness" of the violence somewhat (something that is reflected in the way our laws discern between things like heat of passion and premeditation), but I don't think it means that the perpetrator of the violence is less responsible for their actions (or transfers any of the blame to the victim).

So, yes, I do agree that losing one's temper doesn't automatically make them evil or habitually violent, but they are still culpable for what they've done.
post #12678 of 13569
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrG View Post

Definitely been there, both with physical violence (only dudes) and with stuff like throwing/breaking things, but I don't think what you're saying conflicts with what I'm saying.

I think it potentially mitigates the "wrongness" of the violence somewhat (something that is reflected in the way our laws discern between things like heat of passion and premeditation), but I don't think it means that the perpetrator of the violence is less responsible for their actions (or transfers any of the blame to the victim).

So, yes, I do agree that losing one's temper doesn't automatically make them evil or habitually violent, but they are still culpable for what they've done.

Yup, agree with you. As I said above I think the person is still responsible but I think it's possible to do something violent without a conscious decision to do it. Your reference to the law is pretty apt, IMO.
post #12679 of 13569
Quote:
Originally Posted by L'Incandescent View Post

My posts about the various KISS costumes are as coherent as can be. I'm happy to explain again for anyone who still has questions.

This KISS mania is borderline Aspergers if you ask me..
post #12680 of 13569
The posts I have made about KISS on SF website are (1) very few and (2) not even remotely as "borderline Aspergers" as the average post in MC. (This is probably true for SWD as well, but I hardly ever go in there so I don't know for sure.)
post #12681 of 13569
I've never hit anyone out of anger.
post #12682 of 13569
I never hit people in anger unless I am confident I will win the fight. When in doubt, I act like a peaceable man.
post #12683 of 13569

Dear Abby. That column has been around for nearly six decades..

 

"Dear Abby's website receives about 10,000 letters per week". 

 

Does Mrs. Phillips do anything else besides reading letters from anonymous people?

post #12684 of 13569
Quote:
Originally Posted by L'Incandescent View Post

The posts I have made about KISS on SF website are (1) very few and (2) not even remotely as "borderline Aspergers" as the average post in MC. (This is probably true for SWD as well, but I hardly ever go in there so I don't know for sure.)

I was talking of the KISS posts on the KISS forum.

You've been talking about them on SF with wit and self distanciation.
post #12685 of 13569
I enjoy trolling the KISS forums, I won't even lie!
post #12686 of 13569
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrG View Post

Definitely been there, both with physical violence (only dudes) and with stuff like throwing/breaking things, but I don't think what you're saying conflicts with what I'm saying.

I think it potentially mitigates the "wrongness" of the violence somewhat (something that is reflected in the way our laws discern between things like heat of passion and premeditation), but I don't think it means that the perpetrator of the violence is less responsible for their actions (or transfers any of the blame to the victim).

So, yes, I do agree that losing one's temper doesn't automatically make them evil or habitually violent, but they are still culpable for what they've done.

I feel like we're dancing around words here. I don't think it mitigates the wrongness at all. It's the abusers fault for escalating it to the extreme of physical violence but in some cases the physical violence isn't without cause. But admitting that there's a reason for the violent act isn't the same as admitting it is ethically acceptable. Like somebodys sociopathy doesn't mitigate the wrongness of the murders they commit. I just don't agree with these absolutist statements like victims are never at fault. In some cases the victims do have some responsibility for the outcome but they don't deserve such extreme consequences. It's not always black and white. Demonizing all attackers and putting victims on a pedestal doesn't help.
post #12687 of 13569
I have hit many people out of anger. In my experience it helps you get what you want and relive tensions.
post #12688 of 13569
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

I have hit many people out of anger. In my experience it helps you get what you want and relive tensions.

And their tensions?

They released them on you..
post #12689 of 13569
post #12690 of 13569
There are a lot of scenarios that I can think of where I would hit someone without them committing any violence on me first
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