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Things you just don't get - Page 707

post #10591 of 14155
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrG View Post

Sure it would. What makes it any different than a four-way stop? There's a protocol that dictates right-of-way that isn't undermined at all by making them yield signs.

You may need to educate me here. Yield, in every instance I've ever seen it, has to do with a binary situation, and one roadway always yields to the other.

Example: Two lanes merge into one, as in a divided highway onramp, and the right-turning lane always yields to the left-turning one, such that left-turning traffic is never stranded in the middle of the originating roadway.

If there are yield-right-of-way rules at a four-way intersection, I do not know them, nor do I think it would be a good idea to dare people to think they have the right-of-way tucked in behind another car. Who was "at the intersection" first? Have you ever seen when traffic lights go out and they all flash red at a four-way-stop? LOL, that's like saying "whichever road has the most aggressive assholes when this first occurs is going to have the right of way until the cops show up to direct traffic in 45 minutes." Not quite an exact analogy, as that's supposed to be a four-way-stop, but this is what people do with a slight bit of ambiguity even in a situation that theoretically has none. I consider myself an educated driver, but I don't know how a four-way-yield's rules would work.

A stop sign works because it has no ambiguity. I think you'd have a lot of situations where two drivers would be approaching an intersection roughly at the same time, both could see each other, and a game of chicken would ensue with each gunning to try to get to the intersection "first."
post #10592 of 14155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas View Post


If there are yield-right-of-way rules at a four-way intersection, I do not know them, nor do I think it would be a good idea to dare people to think they have the right-of-way tucked in behind another car. Who was "at the intersection" first? Have you ever seen when traffic lights go out and they all flash red at a four-way-stop? LOL, that's like saying "whichever road has the most aggressive assholes when this first occurs is going to have the right of way until the cops show up to direct traffic in 45 minutes." Not quite an exact analogy, as that's supposed to be a four-way-stop, but this is what people do with a slight bit of ambiguity even in a situation that theoretically has none. I consider myself an educated driver, but I don't know how a four-way-yield's rules would work.

What you need there is a roundabout.

Making cars come to a complete halt even if there's no traffic is a waste of time and petrol (gas).
post #10593 of 14155
Quote:
Originally Posted by E,TF View Post

What you need there is a roundabout.

Making cars come to a complete halt even if there's no traffic is a waste of time and petrol (gas).

Sure, let's have the government grab a quarter-acre of land around every four-way stop in the country, do a nice 10-year environmental study on it, and then rebuild the intersection at great expense. What a stimulating exercise.
post #10594 of 14155
Oh yes, clearly it's too late for you guys. But it works here a treat.
post #10595 of 14155
Roundabouts can be complete clusterfucks if everyone isn't working together to get around the thing, though. Plus, it can be disconcerting for some drivers with everything that's going on to keep track of. Not me, because I'm juan Manuel Fangio, but for some.
post #10596 of 14155
America's grid system with its roadways doesn't lend itself well to roundabouts at every 4-way intersection because there are just too many. Roundabouts work well in heavily-trafficked intersections and at intersections with more than four directions converging, which is a lot more common in European cities. There are other considerations too, largely because American cities were planned for a majority of vehicles and not pedestrians.

The roundabouts that are well-placed in America don't work well largely because a lot of drivers just don't understand them. Not surprising since a lot of drivers don't even understand how to get on and off the highway or why they should probably move right a lane when two or three cars pass them on the right.
post #10597 of 14155
This is such a quintessential why post; hating on America.
post #10598 of 14155
jeez why, you're such a growler.
post #10599 of 14155
Hrm? I honestly can't tell if you guys are joking anymore.
post #10600 of 14155
Why's right though...I mean, the tiny 4 way stops in my urban residential neighborhood wouldn't work as roundabouts, and the roundabouts I have seen tend to turn into clusterfucks (except, oddly, the roundabout at the retirement community where my grandparents live...somehow everybody manages that one).

In addition to 4-way yeilds getting screwy, yield signs do not require you to reduce speed. In some instances this might be an appropriate replacement for a stop sign, but in others, it doesn't work. Back to my urban, residential area:
- Stop signs help space taffic out, making time for pedestrians to cross at various places and leave room for cars turning in and out of driveways/streets.
- Visibility on corners is limited by parked cars and buildings. Maybe you don't have to stop, but yielding doesn't mandate enough of a slowdown to see what is coming around the corner (e.g. yield signs are usually used on things like highway entrance ramps where the assumption is that you are going fast but must yeild right of way to people already on the road).
- There is some desire to discourage fast travel through the neighborhood. You should be on one of the bigger streets with less stops if you are trying to travel some distance. With stops, you get stopped at every corner so there is incentive to go to the bigger streets, even if they have traffic and stop lights, because it will be better than trying to cut around traffic by zooming down side streets (good from both a safety and a noise perspective).
post #10601 of 14155
Quote:
Originally Posted by why View Post

Hrm? I honestly can't tell if you guys are joking anymore.

Hint
Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas View Post

jeez why, you're such a growler.
post #10602 of 14155
NYC taught me that Stop All Way means "slowly roll on through" if there's no one at the other signs! laugh.gif It can be better than a roundabout because you just roll on through when clear.

Seriously though - here in Connecticut there are people who are flummoxed by the "stop all way" or "4 Way Stop" situations, because what happens is that in suburban areas, some people get super friendly and will waive you ahead/through even if they came first. It becomes so common that other's forget the basic rules of a stop all way situation.

washington DC, and bear mountain area NY have a lot of roundabouts (I've encountered a lot in rural Massachusetts too) and they work well in areas with assertive drivers.
post #10603 of 14155
They put in a roundabout in a particularly brutal intersection in a northern suburb of Baltimore. It was a 5-way intersection near a major mall with several major roads intersecting; there was almost no way to bypass the intersection if you were trying to go east-west in that part of town. It had contained, IIRC, at least 3 traffic lights in very close proximity to each other and was a major, major clusterf*** during busy times.

I loved it; it dramatically improved traffic flow and I always got through without incident.

However, after a number of years it was determined that it was the most dangerous intersection in the county, with by far the highest incidence of accidents over any other intersection. I would argue that they must all have been relatively minor, but that's relatively speculative. Anyways, part of the problem stemmed from the fact that at least three of the converging roads were multi-lane. If you were bright about it there was no issue, but if not....

Anyways, the solution they came up with was to choke all the incoming roads down to one lane with new curbs and barriers, and now the intersection is a clusterf*** again. I guess it's not as bad as it was in the way old days, but it's much worse than it was two years ago.
post #10604 of 14155
we drove through a few roundabouts in Sag Harbor last weekend. I kept a mental note of it, and I'm glad I did so I can mention it here.
post #10605 of 14155
They recently installed a roundabout in a somewhat rural section of inbreeding pennsylvania because it is the intersection of two rather significantly travelled roadways. I have driven it many times and never seen a problem with.
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