Slam Magazine's 50 Best NBA Players - Page 5

My point is that you have to consider many things: era, level of competition, stats, titles, postseason performance, team playing style (say, Utah's rigid motion offense vs. Phoenix's run and gun)... and most importantly, WATCH how players perform on the court, before reaching any sort of judgement.


As for judging merits on mere stats, here's an example: I'll give you a (short) statistic breakdown of 2 players (playing the same position) over the last 4 years (so 05/06 to 08/09)

Player 1:
26.8ppg, 6.7rpg, 4.7apg 23.6PER (included for the guy who insisted on using Hollinger's stats)
25ppg, 5.9rpg, 4.1apg 21.7PER
19.6ppg, 5.1rpg, 4.5apg 19.6PER => his worst year, it seems
20.5ppg, 5.6rpg, 3.6apg 17.7PER

Player 2:
24.2ppg, 5.8rpg, 4.3apg 21.6PER
25.3ppg, 6rpg, 4.8apg 21.8PER
21.3ppg, 6rpg, 5.1apg 18.8PER
20.8ppg, 5.1rpg, 4.7apg 19.3PER



















Full disclosure: player 1 is Paul Pierce, his "worst year" is when the Celtics won the most games and took home the title.
Player 2 is Vince Carter.

First of all, it is SLAM Magazine, enough said.

Second, I think some of you guys are over thinking the Stat or Rings argument. Lebron isn't any higher because he just isn't in that caliber yet, he is still too young. In a decade or so, he will be a lot higher and maybe even surpass Kobe. Let's say he has a career ending injury now, he could possibly be bumped out fo the list, look at Grant Hill, so much potential and I guarantee he will be up there if he didn't get hurt. He put up great numbers, even averaged almost 10 rebounds in a couple of season with 7 assist and 2 steals per game to go with it.

Both will play a part and of course, being the star of the team will reap the benefits. Pippen was not just good, but a great second option and really, he contributed to the Bulls championship run as much as MJ or at least close to it. Without Pippen and Phil, Jordan may have won less or no championship at all but he would have still been great and really, you can't take those championships away from him. You can't compare great players to role players like Kukoc or Kerr to Lebron on championship alone, it is ridiculous.

There is no doubt Jordan is #1 and even Jerry West agrees that the logo should be changed to MJ but that's a whole new other discussion. You can't deny that 6 rings though and really, that is what puts him above and beyond these present and future stars.

One way of looking at it is this, Jordan won 6 championships with Longley and Wennington as centers. How many championship teams didn't have a good big man? Spurs had Duncan and Robinson, Lakers had Shaq, Pau, Jabbar, etc... Pistons had the 2 Wallaces, Rockets and the Rockets had Olajuwon. Those the teams who have won the championship in the last 20 years or so.

Ok, enough talking from me.

I just don't find them as reputable. They are all about hype, sneakers and highlights for the most part. I haven't picked up the magazine in a year or two but I doubt it has changed.

Yeah I can agree with that. For LeBron, when it's all said and done, to be considered a great, like Malone and Barkley, both of whom are ranked below #15 in Slam's list, is different from what various posters claimed though (him being #2 or 4, 5 already, based on ability).

I think Gretzky is at least as far above the field... Bobby Orr is a consensus #2 for hockey, and I don't think many would make a case that he should be #1. Mario Lemieux, if not for illness, might have had a chance. But top 10 NHL career point totals look like this.

Gretzky - 2857
Messier - 1887
Howe - 1850
Francis - 1798
Dionne - 1771
Yzerman - 1755
Lemieux - 1723
Sakic - 1641
Jagr - 1599
Esposito - 1590

It's not even close.

Tiger Woods.

No Spud Webb?

+1000


I really have nothing else to had to the convo.

Jordan might be the "most heralded" or "greatest" player based on subjective observance, but Wilt is statistically the most dominant talent by a considerable margin. NBA Single Game Point Totals 100 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia New York 3/2/1962 81 Kobe Bryant, LA Lakers Toronto 1/22/2006 78 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia LA Lakers 12/8/1961 (3OT) 73 David Thompson, Denver Detroit 4/9/1978 73 Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco New York 11/16/1962 73 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia Chicago 1/13/1962 72 Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco LA Lakers 11/3/1962 71 David Robinson, San Antonio LA Clippers 4/24/1994 71 Elgin Baylor, LA Lakers New York 11/15/1960 70 Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco Syracuse 3/10/1963 69 Michael Jordan, Chicago Cleveland 3/28/1990 (OT) 68 Pete Maravich, New Orleans New York 2/25/1977 68 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia Chicago 12/16/1967 67 Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco LA Lakers 1/11/1963 67 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia New York 2/25/1962 67 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia St Louis 2/17/1962 67 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia New York 3/9/1961 66 Wilt Chamberlain, LA Lakers Phoenix 2/9/1969 65 Kobe Bryant, LA Lakers Portland 3/16/2007 65 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia LA Lakers 2/7/1966 65 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia St Louis 2/27/1962 65 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia Cincinnati 2/13/1962 64 Michael Jordan, Chicago Orlando 1/16/1993 (OT) 64 Rick Barry, Golden State Portland 3/26/1974 64 Elgin Baylor, Minneapolis Boston 11/8/1959 63 George Gervin, San Antonio New Orleans 4/9/1978 63 Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco Philadelphia 11/26/1964 63 Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco LA Lakers 12/14/1962 63 Jerry West, LA Lakers New York 1/17/1962 63 Elgin Baylor, LA Lakers Philadelphia 12/8/1961 (3OT) 63 Joe Fulks, Philadelphia Indiana 2/10/1949 62 Kobe Bryant, LA Lakers Dallas 12/20/2005 62 Tracy McGrady, Orlando Washington 3/10/2004 62 Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco Philadelphia 3/3/1966 62 Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco Cincinnati 11/15/1964 62 Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco New York 1/29/1963 62 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia Syracuse 1/21/1962 (OT) 62 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia St Louis 1/17/1962 (OT) 62 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia Boston 1/14/1962 61 Kobe Bryant, LA Lakers New York 2/2/2009 61 Shaquille O'Neal, LA Lakers LA Clippers 3/6/2000 61 Karl Malone, Utah Milwaukee 1/27/1990 61 Michael Jordan, Chicago Atlanta 4/16/1987 61 Michael Jordan, Chicago Detroit 3/4/1987 (OT) 61 Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco St Louis 12/18/1962 61 Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco Syracuse 12/11/1962 61 Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco Cincinnati 11/21/1962 61 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia Chicago 2/28/1962 61 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia St Louis 2/22/1962 61 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia Chicago 12/9/1961 61 George Mikan, Minneapolis Rochester 1/20/1952 (2OT) 60 Kobe Bryant, LA Lakers Memphis 3/22/2007 60 Gilbert Arenas, Washington Los Angeles 12/17/2006 (OT) 60 Allen Iverson, Philadelphia Orlando 2/12/2005 60 Tom Chambers, Phoenix Seattle 3/24/1990 60 Larry Bird, Boston Atlanta 3/12/1985 60 Bernard King, New York New Jersey 12/25/1984 60 Wilt Chamberlain, LA Lakers Cincinnati 1/26/1969 60 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia LA Lakers 12/29/1961 60 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia LA Lakers 12/1/1961 59 Michael Jordan, Chicago Detroit 4/3/1988 59 Purvis Short, Golden State New Jersey 11/17/1984 59 Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco Detroit 2/11/1964 59 Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco LA Lakers 12/6/1963 59 Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco St Louis 12/2/1962 59 Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco Cincinnati 11/18/1962 59 Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco New York 10/30/1962 59 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia New York 2/8/1962 59 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia New York 12/25/1961 (2OT) 59 Jack Twyman, Cincinnati Minneapolis 1/15/1960 58 Kobe Bryant, LA Lakers Charlotte 12/29/2006 (3OT) 58 Allen Iverson, Philadelphia Houston 1/15/2002 (OT) 58 Michael Jordan, Chicago New Jersey 2/26/1987 58 Fred Brown, Seattle Golden State 3/23/1974 58 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia Cincinnati 2/13/1967 58 Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco New York 12/15/1964 (OT) 58 Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco Detroit 1/24/1963 58 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia Detroit 11/8/1961 58 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia Detroit 11/4/1961 58 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia Cincinnati 2/25/1961 58 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia New York 2/21/1960 58 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia Detroit 1/25/1960 57 Michael Redd, Milwaukee Utah 11/11/2006 57 Jerry Stackhouse, Detroit Chicago 4/3/2001 57 Michael Jordan, Chicago Washington 12/23/1992 57 Reggie Miller, Indiana Charlotte 11/28/1992 57 Dominique Wilkins, Atlanta Chicago 12/10/1986 57 Dominique Wilkins, Atlanta New Jersey 4/10/1986 57 Purvis Short, Golden State San Antonio 1/7/1984 57 Adrian Dantley, Utah Chicago 12/4/1982 57 Calvin Murphy, Houston New Jersey 3/18/1978 57 Rick Barry, San Francisco Cincinnati 10/29/1966 57 Rick Barry, San Francisco New York 12/14/1965 57 Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco Chicago 11/10/1962 57 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia Cincinnati 12/19/1961 57 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia LA Lakers 10/20/1961 57 Bob Pettit, St Louis Detroit 2/18/1961 57 Elgin Baylor, LA Lakers Detroit 2/16/1961 57 Richie Guerin, New York Syracuse 12/11/1959 56 LeBron James, Cleveland Toronto 3/20/2005 56 Kobe Bryant, LA Lakers Memphis 1/14/2002 56 Karl Malone, Utah Golden State 4/7/1998 56 Glen Rice, Miami Orlando 4/15/1995 56 Tom Chambers, Phoenix Golden State 2/18/1990 56 Michael Jordan, Chicago Philadelphia 3/24/1987 56 Kevin McHale, Boston Detroit 3/3/1985 56 Kelly Tripucka, Detroit Chicago 1/19/1983 56 Chet Walker, Chicago Cincinnati 2/6/1972 56 Earl Monroe, Baltimore LA Lakers 2/13/1968 (OT) 56 Oscar Robertson, Cincinnati LA Lakers 12/18/1964 56 Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco Baltimore 12/1/1964 (2OT) 56 Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco LA Lakers 2/16/1963 (2OT) 56 Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco Cincinnati 2/7/1963 56 Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco Detroit 10/23/1962 56 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia LA Lakers 3/1/1961 56 Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco Syracuse 3/1/1961 56 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia LA Lakers 1/21/1961 56 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia Syracuse 1/5/1961 56 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia New York 1/2/1961 55 Dwyane Wade, Miami New York 4/12/2009 55 LeBron James, Cleveland Milwaukee 2/20/2009 55 Tony Parker, San Antonio Minnesota 11/5/2008 (2OT) 55 Jermaine O'Neal, Indiana Indiana 1/4/2005 55 Kobe Bryant, LA Lakers Washington 3/28/2003 55 Michael Jordan, Chicago New York 3/28/1995 55 Bernard King, New York New Jersey 2/16/1985 55 Adrian Dantley, Utah Denver 2/6/1981 55 George Gervin, San Antonio Atlanta 1/23/1980 55 Rick Barry, Golden State New York 3/25/1978 55 Rick Barry, Golden State Philadelphia 1/23/1975 55 Nate Archibald, Cincinnati Portland 2/23/1972 55 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Milwaukee Boston 12/10/1971 55 Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco LA Lakers 3/14/1964 55 Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco LA Lakers 11/2/1963 55 Cliff Hagan, St Louis Cincinnati 2/11/1962 55 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia New York 1/30/1962 55 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia Chicago 1/24/1962 55 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia St Louis 1/7/1962 55 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia Detroit 12/20/1961 55 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia Chicago 12/10/1961 55 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia Syracuse 11/9/1961 55 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia Syracuse 10/27/1961 55 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia New York 2/5/1961 55 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia Cincinnati 11/12/1959 55 Elgin Baylor, Minneapolis Cincinnati 2/25/1959 54 Ray Allen, Seattle Utah 1/12/2007 54 Gilbert Arenas, Washington Phoenix 12/22/2006 54 Damon Stoudamire, Portland New Orleans 1/14/2005 54 Allen Iverson, Philadelphia Milwaukee 12/18/2004 54 Allen Iverson, Philadelphia Cleveland 1/6/2001 54 Michael Jordan, Chicago LA Lakers 11/20/1992 (OT) 54 Michael Adams, Denver Milwaukee 3/23/1991 (OT) 54 Michael Jordan, Chicago Cleveland 11/3/1989 (OT) 54 Dominique Wilkins, Atlanta Boston 3/3/1987 (OT) 54 Alex English, Denver Houston 11/19/1985 54 Dave Bing, Detroit Chicago 2/21/1971 54 Elvin Hayes, San Diego Detroit 11/13/1968 54 Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco Cincinnati 3/1/1963 54 Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco Chicago 11/9/1962 54 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia Cincinnati 1/18/1962 54 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia Detroit 12/12/1961 53 Kobe Bryant, LA Lakers Memphis 3/28/2008 53 Kobe Bryant, LA Lakers Houston 3/30/2007 (OT) 53 Kobe Bryant, LA Lakers Houston 12/15/2006 53 Allen Iverson, Philadelphia Atlanta 12/23/2005 53 Dirk Nowitzki, Dallas Houston 12/02/2004 (OT) 53 Allan Houston, New York LA Lakers 2/16/2003 53 Tim Duncan, San Antonio Dallas 12/16/2001 (OT) 53 Tony Delk, Phoenix Sacramento 1/2/2001 (OT) 53 Michael Jordan, Chicago Detroit 3/7/1996 53 Shaquille O'Neal, Orlando Minnesota 4/20/1994 53 Willie Burton, Philadelphia Miami 12/13/1993 53 Dale Ellis, Seattle Milwaukee 11/9/1989 (4OT) 53 Michael Jordan, Chicago Phoenix 1/21/1989 53 Michael Jordan, Chicago Indiana 4/12/1987 53 Dominique Wilkins, Atlanta LA Clippers 1/12/1987 53 Michael Jordan, Chicago Portland 1/8/1987 53 Larry Bird, Boston Indiana 3/30/1983 53 Adrian Dantley, Utah Denver 4/10/1982 53 Moses Malone, Houston San Diego 2/2/1982 53 George Gervin, San Antonio Denver 1/8/1980 53 Gail Goodrich, LA Lakers KC-Omaha 3/28/1975 53 Phil Chenier, Baltimore Portland 12/6/1972 53 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Milwaukee Philadelphia 2/18/1972 53 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Milwaukee Cleveland 2/9/1972 53 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Milwaukee Boston 1/27/1971 53 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Milwaukee Cleveland 11/4/1970 53 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia LA Lakers 3/18/1968 53 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia Seattle 12/20/1967 53 Jerry West, LA Lakers Cincinnati 1/29/1965 53 Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco Baltimore 1/3/1965 53 Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco Detroit 11/12/1964 53 Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco St Louis 11/29/1962 53 Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco LA Lakers 11/23/1962 53 Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco Cincinnati 10/28/1962 53 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia Cincinnati 2/1/1962 53 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia Boston 1/27/1962 53 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia Detroit 1/19/1962 53 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia St Louis 1/5/1962 53 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia New York 12/27/1961 53 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia New York 10/21/1961 53 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia Boston 2/23/1960 53 George Mikan, Minneapolis Baltimore 2/26/1949 52 LeBron James, Cleveland New York 2/4/2009 52 Brandon Roy, Portland Phoenix 12/18/2008 52 Kobe Bryant, LA Lakers Dallas 3/2/2008 52 Michael Redd, Milwaukee Chicago 3/4/2007 52 Jamal Crawford, New York Miami 1/26/2007 52 Kobe Bryant, LA Lakers Utah 11/30/2006 52 LeBron James, Cleveland Milwaukee 12/10/2005 52 Tracy McGrady, Orlando Chicago 2/21/2003 52 Kobe Bryant, LA Lakers Houston 2/18/2003 (2OT) 52 Michael Jordan, Chicago Charlotte 3/12/1993 52 David Robinson, San Antonio Charlotte 1/16/1993 52 Dominique Wilkins, Atlanta New York 12/7/1991 (2OT) 52 Bernard King, Washington Denver 12/29/1990 52 Charles Smith, LA Clippers Denver 12/1/1990 52 Hakeem Olajuwon, Houston Denver 4/19/1990 (OT) 52 Terry Cummings, San Antonio Charlotte 1/31/1990 52 Karl Malone, Utah Charlotte 12/22/1989 52 Michael Jordan, Chicago Orlando 12/20/1989 52 Michael Jordan, Chicago Denver 11/26/1988 52 Michael Jordan, Chicago Philadelphia 11/16/1988 52 Michael Jordan, Chicago Boston 11/9/1988 52 Michael Jordan, Chicago Portland 2/26/1988 52 Michael Jordan, Chicago Cleveland 12/17/1988 52 Bernard King, New York Indiana 11/24/1984 52 Joe Barry Carroll, Golden State Utah 3/5/1983 52 Ray Williams, New Jersey Detroit 4/17/1982 52 Billy Knight, Indiana San Antonio 11/11/1980 52 Mike Newlin, New Jersey Boston 12/16/1979 (OT) 52 George Gervin, San Antonio San Diego 1/11/1979 52 Bob McAdoo, Buffalo Seattle 3/17/1976 52 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Milwaukee Atlanta 1/2/1975 52 Bob McAdoo, Buffalo Boston 2/22/1974 52 Nate Archibald, KC-Omaha Atlanta 1/27/1973 52 Nate Archibald, KC-Omaha New York 1/9/1973 (OT) 52 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia Seattle 12/1/1967 52 Rick Barry, San Francisco Chicago 2/16/1967 52 Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco New York 11/6/1964 52 Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco Cincinnati 2/25/1964 52 Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco Detroit 2/18/1964 52 Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco Cincinnati 2/17/1964 52 Bob Pettit, St Louis Baltimore 11/16/1963 52 Wilt Chamberlain, San Francisco Detroit 12/21/1962 52 Elgin Baylor, LA Lakers San Francisco 12/15/1962 52 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia Cincinnati 1/11/1962 52 Elgin Baylor, LA Lakers St Louis 12/13/1961 52 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia Boston 12/13/1961 52 Elgin Baylor, LA Lakers St Louis 12/11/1961 52 Elgin Baylor, LA Lakers Philadelphia 12/8/1961 52 Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia Cincinnati 2/3/1961 That's almost unfathomable how dominant he was.

MJ
Wilt
Magic
Bird
Russell
Kareem
Oscar
Shaq
West
Dr. J

Kwiteboy is hilarious. I would call him ignorant, but remember that his generation has had self-esteem drilled into their heads relentlessly. Results are unimportant, only potential. So, yeah. LBJ is the greatest from that perspective.

Wilt was, by far, the most dominant player ever. If he played now, he wouldn't be as dominant, but he would still be the best player in the league. He would be better than Shaq was in his prime.

He was Shaq's size, but much, much more athletic (was on his college track team). Like Shaq, there were few players as big as him - Gilmore, Russell, Reed were all big, but not as big.

His conditioning was amazing, especially considering that this was in the era before personal trainers, team dieticians, etc. His second year in the league he averaged over 48 minutes per game, (and averaged over 50 pts, 25 rebounds per game).

He's the only center to ever lead the league in assists.

He transformed the game of basketball.

Did I say potential? I said ability. Using PER, the most comprehensive metric of an individual player's team-independent value, LeBron's 2008-09 season was the best non-MJ individual season since the NBA started tracking individual turnovers in 1977. As the 2008-09 season is now over, I think we can start calling it a result, as results are things that have already happened, not things that have the potential to happen, but double-check that definition for me, as I'm ignorant.