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Motorcycles - Page 225

post #3361 of 4526
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tck13 View Post

You're right in that there are some arrogant people out there that are cocky with their abilities. Each rider has to know their own experience. I knew mine despite people on here telling me I didn't. I know myself better than anyone on the interwebzzz.

I haven't seen a person display a poorer grasp of irony since Alanis Morrisette.
post #3362 of 4526
Quote:
I NEVER SAID that they should ride aggressively, out of control, speed, outside of their limits, etc. NEVER ONCE did I say anything like that.

Please re-read the paragraph above several times so you can be clear on what I'm saying.

 

What you keep missing (voluntarily or not) is that any new rider, on any new bike, will not know where its limits are.

 

Quote:
I still haven't heard you recommend any classes or formal training. Do you have any?

No because that's irrelevant. I have not taken it myself, but loving the book and the dvd he made, i would say a course like the one from Keith Code is a good idea : http://www.superbikeschool.com/curriculum/the-levels.php I've taken similar courses, and yes it makes a difference.

 

Also any course that teach you how to set up the suspensions and more generally take care of your bike is another good idea.

post #3363 of 4526
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tck13 View Post

Sure they did.

 

Pisspoor instructors then

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tck13 View Post

No, it's idiots that push people for starting on bikes that the rider can't handle. That's called peer pressure. NEVER have I said that anyone should get anything that someone else pressures them into getting and never did I say that someone should buy a bike that doesn't feel comfortable or that they don't feel like they can't handle. Please quote me if you think I did. If not than stop attributing such ignorant bullshit to me. I never said it.

 

If you are a new rider you have no friggin clue what feels good or what you can or cannot handle.  You are new.  You have no idea wha the bike can or cannot do much less what you can or cannot do.  How many times have you heard a potential rider say "I drive fast cars so I need a fast bike"?

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tck13 View Post

You're right in that there are some arrogant people out there that are cocky with their abilities. Each rider has to know their own experience. I knew mine despite people on here telling me I didn't. I know myself better than anyone on the interwebzzz.

 

A new rider doesn't know jack shit.  Sorry.  Cimmon sense doesn't even factor in. For example, you are a new rider and you think you have come into a corner too hot.  Your first impulse is to:

  1. grab a handful of front brake
  2. grab a handful of rear brake
  3. modulate both brakes
  4. stay even on the throttle, lean more ride straight through

 

Without any real road experience 99.999% of new riders will choose 1 through 3....and end up in someone's yard or in someone's tree.  Most riders do not even approach the handling limits of the bikes they ride.  I would speculate that no new rider comes anywhere near to reaching their bike's handling limits.

 

 

Quote:

We'll have to agree to disagree about that. I read what I posted on the MSF site somewhere or on my motorcycle insurance or something like that. Unfortunately I can't find it to quote it.

 

MSF class provides you enough to know the basic operation of a motorcycle.  It doesn't teach you how to ride

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tck13 View Post

I remember going over things like that in my class and actually practicing it. Although, the MSF course has gotten a lot more laid back since I've gone.
 

 

You go over it but it doesn't become second nature until you have actual road experience

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tck13 View Post

?

 

Are you saying you cannot blip the throttle and pull the clutch at the same time?  Really?

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tck13 View Post

I remember going over this stuff quite clearly. Perhaps classes are different? We actually had training in the rain.

 

It's the difference between theoretical and practical applications.  Having class in the rain is mch different than riding IN the rain. 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tck13 View Post

Absolutely. Especially if you're not familiar with a bike or the way it handles. Once again, I never said that you should buy a Hayabusa or even an R1 as a first bike. My bike was a Sportster twin basically. So, a quarter turn on the throttle was quite a bit different from turning the throttle on a 1000cc sportbike. Different torque and all of that. Which, actually, if you go back and read the original posting it says that they can be good bikes for beginners (cruisers - not sportbikes).

 

People were clearly talking about the ninja 300 as a first bike and you said it was too small (although I suspect you still could learn something on that baby ninjette...we all probably could).  Last time I checked the Ninja 250/300 was a sportbike.  And yo mentioned somethign earlier about size so let's address that as well:

 

  Ninja 300 Ninja 636 Ninja 1000 (zx-10)
       
length 79.3" 82.1" 81.7"
width 28.1" 27.8" 28.1"
seat height 30.9" 32.7" 32"
wheelbase 55.3" 54.9" 56.1"
weight 379.3 lbs 423.4 lbs 436.6 lbs
       

 

So basically the 300, the 600 and the 1000 are physically damn near the same size but weigh differently.  The 1000 is 2 inches longer than the 300 (note teh 600 is longer than the 1000) yet the same width with a slightly longer wheelbase.  I bet Honda and Suzuki will have similar numbers.  So much for the "it's too small" argument

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tck13 View Post

Parking lots are for testing every aspect of a bike whether it's your first or fifth bike. If you've read the Hurt Report you'll know that accidents are very common even amongst riders with a lot of experience when they're riding and unfamiliar bike.

 

I guess we have to agree to disagree.  It is quite difficult to replicate real world experience in a parking lot even when you have real world experience.  If you have no real world experience it is damn near impossible to do so.

 

I don't have ill thought for anyone and I wish you the best but I don't think you are as good of a rider that you think you are.  I just hope and pray you learn from this e-thrashing and keep your "advice" to yourself.  A failure on a bike is more than a boo boo on your knee and some public embarrassment.  The wrong advice to a newbie can send someone to the morgue


Edited by Rumpelstiltskin - 8/17/13 at 4:04am
post #3364 of 4526
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tck13 View Post

Your wearing jeans when you ride? You are now comfortable "getting the bike leaned over and shit"? Plus, you say that your bike riding involves "me being too aggressive" and "being unable to manage my bike's speed"? Finally, your "20-30% of the way"...?

Maybe you should take your own advice and get a smaller bike.

Yes, I was way too aggressive and unable to manage my bike's speed WHEN I FIRST STARTED RIDING. Now I am comfortable and confident on the bike, after having had the couple of months and thousands of miles needed to get the muscle memory and learn the bike's limits. Something that would have come even faster on a smaller bike.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tck13 View Post

Not that you read it but I did mention that I would recommend my advice for getting a bigger bike if you can handle it should be used "sparingly". That advice wouldn't pertain to you. No offense.
What the fuck does this even mean? If you get a bike that is beyond your skill level you should "use it" (as in tap into whatever potential it has beyond your skill level) NEVER.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tck13 View Post

This is getting fucking ridiculous. Please quote where I said this. I'm sorry you can't understand what I'm posting or what I've said. Actually, I can see why you wouldn't understand what I said.

I laid it out already. You blasted the notion that people should start on small bikes and then posted your experience of starting on an R1 as an example of someone surviving starting out on a big bike. And now you are trying to act like that's what you didn't do despite it all being on the record here.

Bottom line folks have their whole lives to ride... a couple of months or a year on a 250-500 won't hurt anybody and calling such advice stupid (which you did) or suggesting that starting on an R1 is fine (which you did) is terrible, irresponsible advice, period, and representative of a rider more concerned with... ego? image? than safety and actually being a good, skilled, competent rider. Such a person should not be offering riding advice. Don't take it personally
post #3365 of 4526
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumpelstiltskin View Post



It looks like it would suit you perfectly Trini


DAMN SON HOW YOU GON DO ME LIKE DAT?

I'm not even wearing a flannel shirt or Bell 500 helmet in that pic shog[1].gif
post #3366 of 4526
This whole "what bike should a newbie get, and why?" discussion has been hashed and rehashed here many times. None of you are breaking any new ground.
post #3367 of 4526
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Smith View Post

This whole "what bike should a newbie get, and why?" discussion has been hashed and rehashed here many times. None of you are breaking any new ground.
Nobody claimed to be

What can be said has been said... back to the subject at hand

post #3368 of 4526
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SplasH View Post

What you keep missing (voluntarily or not) is that any new rider, on any new bike, will not know where its limits are.

No because that's irrelevant. I have not taken it myself, but loving the book and the dvd he made, i would say a course like the one from Keith Code is a good idea : http://www.superbikeschool.com/curriculum/the-levels.php I've taken similar courses, and yes it makes a difference.


Also any course that teach you how to set up the suspensions and more generally take care of your bike is another good idea.

What you are missing is that pretty much no rider except for professional racers will ever know what the limits of a bike are.
post #3369 of 4526
Thread Starter 
This is fun.

So, I'm arguing with three guys that either A) don't have or have never ridden a bike B) has a bike but can barely handle it and C) have never taken a formal course.

And, all three are telling me how A) a new rider should start out B) telling me what kind of bike a person should get and C) that a formal training course doesn't teach you about the limits or your motorcycle.

It's amazing that the three of you have so many opinions about things that you don't have any experience with.
post #3370 of 4526
????

Who here doesnt ride?
B is debatable
Who here rides and hasnt taken the MSF course?

Heres the wrap up... your insistence that starting off on a slow bike is a stupid idea is stupid. As is using the fact that you survived starting on an R1 as justification for new riders to start on "whatever they are comfortable on... as long as they take the MSF". Every bike is comfortable sitting still.

Its bad advice. Lets just move on
post #3371 of 4526
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool The Kid View Post

Yes, I was way too aggressive and unable to manage my bike's speed WHEN I FIRST STARTED RIDING.

I was comfortable very quickly and apparently much more quickly than you. Deal with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool The Kid View Post

Now I am comfortable and confident on the bike, after having had the couple of months and thousands of miles needed to get the muscle memory and learn the bike's limits.

You don't know and probably never will know your bikes limits. Or, any bike for that matter.

Something that would have come even faster on a smaller bike.

Not necessarily. Every bike is different. You could go from a small bike to another small bike and it will be very different. This is true for even experienced riders.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool The Kid View Post

What the fuck does this even mean? If you get a bike that is beyond your skill level you should "use it" (as in tap into whatever potential it has beyond your skill level) NEVER.
I laid it out already. You blasted the notion that people should start on small bikes and then posted your experience of starting on an R1 as an example of someone surviving starting out on a big bike. And now you are trying to act like that's what you didn't do despite it all being on the record here.

It means that buying a bigger bike than a 750 (or whatever) isn't for everyone (like you). Once again, I mentioned why I bought the R1 and it wasn't as a beginner bike. It was to make money. You can't read. From now on I won't comment on your posts unless you can quote exactly what I said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool The Kid View Post

Bottom line folks have their whole lives to ride... a couple of months or a year on a 250-500 won't hurt anybody and calling such advice stupid (which you did) or suggesting that starting on an R1 is fine (which you did) is terrible, irresponsible advice, period, and representative of a rider more concerned with... ego? image? than safety and actually being a good, skilled, competent rider. Such a person should not be offering riding advice. Don't take it personally

Sigh. No, I never said it was ok to start out on an R1. Please re-read that again. Also, I never said it was stupid to start out on a smaller bike. I said that if you are going to purchase a bike you should get one that you are confident with, feel comfortable with, and can handle. You are mentally retarded. What I take personally is you misquoting what I said and then commenting on it. I'll ask you again to stop.

Plus, aren't you the one wearing jeans while riding your bike and how you are riding a bike that you can't / couldn't handle? And you're going to talk to me about safety? I'd suggest getting the proper gear, getting a smaller bike that you can handle, and then moving up when you're ready and confident.
post #3372 of 4526
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool The Kid View Post

Who here doesnt ride?

The first guy that commented on my post won't answer questions about whether or not he has a bike or any training. I can only assume that he doesn't ride or have a bike. Am I wrong?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool The Kid View Post

B is debatable

Lol! Not really. But I forgot, you don't read.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool The Kid View Post

Who here rides and hasnt taken the MSF course?

Frenchy hasn't but he has no problem criticizing people like myself who have taken several (both beginning and advanced) and telling me that I've learned nothing from them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool The Kid View Post

Heres the wrap up... your insistence that starting off on a slow bike is a stupid idea is stupid. As is using the fact that you survived starting on an R1 as justification for new riders to start on "whatever they are comfortable on... as long as they take the MSF". Every bike is comfortable sitting still.

Its bad advice. Lets just move on

I'm not sure why you quoted me because I didn't say any those things. I'll ask you to either quote me or remove it.
Edited by Tck13 - 8/17/13 at 7:57pm
post #3373 of 4526
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRINI View Post


DAMN SON HOW YOU GON DO ME LIKE DAT?

I'm not even wearing a flannel shirt or Bell 500 helmet in that pic shog[1].gif

 

photo laugh3-smiley_zpsdf07b25b.gifphoto laugh3-smiley_zpsdf07b25b.gifphoto laugh3-smiley_zpsdf07b25b.gif

 

Sidenote:   Are you from TnT?  If not why did you choose the name Trini?


Edited by Rumpelstiltskin - 8/17/13 at 2:13pm
post #3374 of 4526
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tck13 View Post

This is fun.

So, I'm arguing with three guys that either A) don't have or have never ridden a bike B) has a bike but can barely handle it and C) have never taken a formal course.

And, all three are telling me how A) a new rider should start out B) telling me what kind of bike a person should get and C) that a formal training course doesn't teach you about the limits or your motorcycle.

It's amazing that the three of you have so many opinions about things that you don't have any experience with.

 

You need to quit while you are behind

post #3375 of 4526
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tck13 View Post

I said that if you are going to purchase a bike you should get one that you are confident with, feel comfortable with, and can handle.

Like you did?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tck13 
buying a 1300cc as my first official bike (I had a YZF-R1 first - long story) worked out great for me. As a matter of fact, the power of that bike was PERFECT for me as was the size of the bike. It fit like a glove.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tck13 
It took a couple of months before I felt ready to even go on an hour ride on the highway... And then I spent hours picking up my bike, doing slow speed drills / turns / braking[/B]

While you keep claiming your first bike was a great choice, every experience you've related indicates it wasn't. Despite completing your training courses and getting your license, which indicates you had sufficient training for riding a motorcycle on public roads, you were unsure of your ability to handle it on the road and so tooled around parking lots for two months, and you dropped it repeatedly during low-speed maneuvers. This is not normal behavior. Those are the symptoms of a new rider with too much bike. You previously wrote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tck13 
there are some arrogant people out there that are cocky with their abilities. Each rider has to know their own experience. I knew mine despite people on here telling me I didn't. I know myself better than anyone on the interwebzzz.

The reason I said that was ironic before is that you're clearly just like the person you describe. You ignored everyone's advice, bought too much bike and spent months tip-toeing around parking lots (also driving late at night/early morning with no cars around, I'll bet), and you're so arrogant you can't even consider the possibility you were mistaken, even when everyone disagrees with you. Think about that: you're saying everyone else is wrong. That's pretty much the defining characteristic of arrogance.

You can try to rationalize it by claiming you know yourself better than we'll ever know you, we weren't there, etc., but the other side of that is all we know is what you, your most biased and invested advocate, have told us, and you still come off as being in the wrong. We universally think you're wrong when we likely don't even know the most egregious blunders you made.
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