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Motorcycles - Page 224

post #3346 of 4526
Quote:
Originally Posted by SplasH View Post


Thing is, there's a 99% chance that you didn't knew what you were doing, principally because you had no idea what the bike was capable of doing. And how could you, since you had no way to compare it with anything ?

This is the recipe for disaster and that's why what you did should never at any point and for anybody be a recommandation.


There's no way we can stress enough that being able to do something and being able to totally control it aren't the same.

This. It's worrying when new riders go on about how they would have been bored on a smaller bike. A CBR250R will have you moving at 80mph about 5" above skin-grinding asphalt while surrounded by people in 2-ton metal cages trying to watch Youtube on their phones. Someone bored while doing that isn't skilled - he's clueless. What new riders really mean is "I'm no longer constantly terrified" so clearly they can handle another 100hp.

Someone new isn't the best judge of this sort of thing. Anyone that's ever taught another person how to do something involving safety equipment will tell you that newbies always say they're fine, totally comfortable - when they clearly can't see out of their helmet, or their knee guards are covering their shins, or their cup is on backwards, or their safety harness is loose. Ignorance is better than goose-down for giving you that nice, fluffy comfortable sensation - that's why they say it's bliss.
post #3347 of 4526
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by epb View Post

This. It's worrying when new riders go on about how they would have been bored on a smaller bike. A CBR250R will have you moving at 80mph about 5" above skin-grinding asphalt while surrounded by people in 2-ton metal cages trying to watch Youtube on their phones. Someone bored while doing that isn't skilled - he's clueless. What new riders really mean is "I'm no longer constantly terrified" so clearly they can handle another 100hp.

Someone new isn't the best judge of this sort of thing. Anyone that's ever taught another person how to do something involving safety equipment will tell you that newbies always say they're fine, totally comfortable - when they clearly can't see out of their helmet, or their knee guards are covering their shins, or their cup is on backwards, or their safety harness is loose. Ignorance is better than goose-down for giving you that nice, fluffy comfortable sensation - that's why they say it's bliss.

People with no training (or that have been "trained" by friends or family members) account for 90% of motorcycle accidents.
post #3348 of 4526
Quote:
You're right. After 3 MSF courses (2 before even getting a bike and one soon after getting one) and several months using my bike in parking lots testing the limits of the brakes, acceleration, drilling at turning and maneuvering at slow speeds, expanding on the skills that I learned in my classes, etc. I had absolutely NO IDEA what I was doing. I should have played the lottery as well. I could have won millions as I was so lucky!

 

 

You're just lacking humility. What you're saying is that after 45 hours of training, 15 of them in class you're good to go on any bike as long as practice in a parking lot ?

 

And after that you attack the other's arguments on experience ?

 

If you had ridden on smaller bikes you would know the difference acceleration control make, and actually how to apprehend a newer, bigger bike. I maintain that you just got lucky.

 

As for under or over 750cc, displacement is not really the matter, my brother's 250cc two stroke engined RGV i have in my garage is way harder to ride correctly and to 100% than my 1000cc is. It's just a matter of big / powerful bikes against experience of what to do with those HP.

 

Edit : 40% of accidents on a motorcycle are by motorists over their head with confidence. Usually happens around 6 months after getting the license.

post #3349 of 4526
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tck13 View Post

People with no training (or that have been "trained" by friends or family members) account for 90% of motorcycle accidents.

Couldn't part of that correlation be the universal practice of recommending smaller-displacement bikes by professional trainers? I'd lay odds that in the courses you took, not once did an instructor say "Ride whatever you want, long as your comfortable."

It's friends and family that push for starting on larger bikes, using pretty much the same rationales you've been arguing against.
post #3350 of 4526

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Our shop is owned by motorcycle track and street enthusiasts, and we're glad to help out with anything, from Forcefield armored undershirts to armored Vanson jackets to classic horsehide Aero jackets!

 

New jacket styles go up daily!  Hope you enjoy it!

 

 

post #3351 of 4526
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumpelstiltskin View Post

Another wierd yet interesting bike

 

 

9440981778_8044a7bcd1_b.jpg

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRINI View Post


This picture is the motorcycle epitomy of hipster.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarioImpemba View Post

 

crackup%5B1%5D.gif

 

>Pabst

 

 

I want to hate that motorcycle, but I can't; it is great.

 

It looks like it would suit you perfectly Trini

 

9055857240_a8fbae3cea_c.jpg

post #3352 of 4526
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SplasH View Post


You're just lacking humility. What you're saying is that after 45 hours of training, 15 of them in class you're good to go on any bike as long as practice in a parking lot ?

No, that's not what I said. I said that you're "good to go" (in your words) on a bike that you feel comfortable with AFTER you've at least taken a MSF course (or similar course). A bike that you feel confident handling and that isn't "terrifying" (as others have said). (Why would anyone buy a bike that they were "terrified" of or "terrified" to ride?) I felt completely comfortable with my choice of bike. I felt comfortable with the weight, the speed, the throttle response, etc. I was completely confident with all of those things. As I said, and I'll reiterate, if you're not comfortable with a bike you shouldn't get it. I was and I HAD experience with a bike before I bought my first bike.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SplasH View Post

And after that you attack the other's arguments on experience ?

Yes. If you don't have ANY experience or have been taught how to ride by your dad or your pappy or haven't been to any formal training class you're a recipe for disaster. Formal training classes will move someone with no experience to someone with approximately 6 months - 1.5 years of experience just from taking the class. That's a lot more experience than none. NEVER, and NOT ONCE did I EVER say that someone with no experience should get on ANY bike and start riding. EVER. I NEVER said that in this thread or EVER in my entire life.

I clearly stated that AFTER someone has had FORMAL TRAINING and IS / WAS familiar with riding a motorcycle that they could then purchase THE BIKE OF THEIR CHOICE, whether that be a Ninja 250 or a Harley Sportster or even a Duece or a BMW 800 of Honda touring 1100 or something of that nature. If they are confident of their skills and are comfortable with the bike then I see no reason why they shouldn't get one and ride it.

I NEVER SAID that they should ride aggressively, out of control, speed, outside of their limits, etc. NEVER ONCE did I say anything like that.

Please re-read the paragraph above several times so you can be clear on what I'm saying.

I still haven't heard you recommend any classes or formal training. Do you have any?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SplasH View Post

If you had ridden on smaller bikes you would know the difference acceleration control make, and actually how to apprehend a newer, bigger bike. I maintain that you just got lucky.

I see you still didn't read my posts. I can't force you to do that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SplasH View Post

As for under or over 750cc, displacement is not really the matter, my brother's 250cc two stroke engined RGV i have in my garage is way harder to ride correctly and to 100% than my 1000cc is. It's just a matter of big / powerful bikes against experience of what to do with those HP.

Large displacement motorcycles are involved in less accidents than lower displacement bikes. However, people with NO TRAINING are involved in over 90% of motorcycle accidents. Why? Because they have NO TRAINING OR EXPERIENCE. I NEVER said that someone should be riding a bike that their not comfortable with or without any experience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SplasH View Post

Edit : 40% of accidents on a motorcycle are by motorists over their head with confidence. Usually happens around 6 months after getting the license.

Where are you getting that statistic? From the Hurt Report? Just curious.
Edited by Tck13 - 8/16/13 at 9:44pm
post #3353 of 4526
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thurston Bros View Post

For a look at a lot of premium Aero, Vanson, Schott NYC, and other premium, heirloom-quality leather motorcycle jackets, please check out and subscribe to our new affiliate thread in Classic Menswear:

 

http://www.styleforum.net/t/358658/thurston-bros-rough-wear-aero-leather-jackets-north-america-official-affiliate-thread

 

Our shop is owned by motorcycle track and street enthusiasts, and we're glad to help out with anything, from Forcefield armored undershirts to armored Vanson jackets to classic horsehide Aero jackets!

 

New jacket styles go up daily!  Hope you enjoy it!

 

 

Can you please bring your website into the 21st century so I can easily browse your catalog?

post #3354 of 4526
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarioImpemba View Post

 

Can you please bring your website into the 21st century so I can easily browse your catalog?


...LOL..  Give it some time...  There are some great jackets on that site...

post #3355 of 4526

Jesus Christ, can you please start debating religion or politics or something equally pointless next? No one is changing their mind here. Move along...

 

My insurance agent couldn't find me a cheaper moto insurance, so I just bit the bullet and renewed for $540. Shiest.

 

Anyone ever deal with or know anything about these guys: http://www.mdicarbonfiber.com/store/

post #3356 of 4526
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thurston Bros View Post

...LOL..  Give it some time...  There are some great jackets on that site...

 

Indeed, there is some awesome stuff on there, which is why it's so frustrating biggrin.gif

post #3357 of 4526
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarioImpemba View Post

Why denim on the bike and not just leathers? Don't want to change when you get somewhere or walk around in bike leather?
I do eventually want to only ride on the track and plan to get leathers for next riding season. But I need black jeans anyway and figure it would be nice to have a pair I could wear anywhere, including on the bike for grocery runs or whatever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by epb View Post

There's a thread in the Streetwear and Denim forum about kevlar jeans, ya know: http://www.styleforum.net/t/61010/motorcycle-jeans-project/60#post_6538226

I don't think anyone's found that holy grail of motorcycle jeans, subtle ones. As I mention in the other thread, my play was to get Draggin Kevlar underwear and add knee armor, which protects me while letting me wear anything.

I only check 4-5 threads on here... the RHET thread (basically the weight lifting thread), the WYHI thread, the funny gif thread and this one. SW&D is a miserable place. I stopped coming here for fashion years ago. I will check this link out though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tck13 View Post

I was never in "over my head".
I haven't backpedaled at all. Unfortunately, what I have done is defend what I wrote against others (like yourself) filling in spaces with things that I didn't say or mean. If someone feels completely comfortable on a larger bike then I don't see why they shouldn't get one. If one's not comfortable with it than they shouldn't do it. I was completely comfortable with what I did.

Also, someone with no experience should start out taking a MSF course (or a similar course) and learn about riding and handling a bike and make sure that they even LIKE riding a motorcycle or it's something that they can even physically do. I've stated that from the start. That's nice of you to put words into my mouth though. Once again, that's not backpedaling, it's not letting you take liberties with what I said.

How long have the two of you been riding and how did you start out? Anyone that started riding later in life (as in after 18 yo.)? Have either of you taken the MSF (or similar) courses?
I have been riding for 2 yrs. I started on my Ninja 650. I did the MSF course before I rode the bike. Now that I have room and time I do drills and I am pretty comfortable getting the bike leaned over and all that shit. I made a lot of stupid choices and have gone down more than I want to admit (mainly early in my riding career)... and have had some close calls due solely to me being too aggressive and being unable to manage my bike's speed. I would say now I am decent on the bike; maybe 20-30% of the way to being a legitimately good rider (no track time yet, only about 10K miles ridden)

Here is the thing with sportbikes and the people who feel like they need to start riding on them. Sport bikes require people who know what they are doing to be legitimately ridden safely (not luckily). At the minimum, someone who has the muscle memory of shit like shifting, braking, countersteering etc (which would come from the couple of months on a slow bike). And people who insist on starting on them and say 'you just have to respect the bike' are just lying to themselves to rationalize a stupid decision. "Respecting the bike" means knowing how to ride it and choosing a bike that matches your skill level. So suggesting that people should just buy whatever bike they want and see what happens because it happened to work for you is just too irresponsible to ignore. Its piss poor advice and should be pointed out as such. Sorry.
post #3358 of 4526
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool The Kid View Post

I do eventually want to only ride on the track and plan to get leathers for next riding season. But I need black jeans anyway and figure it would be nice to have a pair I could wear anywhere, including on the bike for grocery runs or whatever.
I only check 4-5 threads on here... the RHET thread (basically the weight lifting thread), the WYHI thread, the funny gif thread and this one. SW&D is a miserable place. I stopped coming here for fashion years ago. I will check this link out though.
I have been riding for 2 yrs. I started on my Ninja 650. I did the MSF course before I rode the bike. Now that I have room and time I do drills and I am pretty comfortable getting the bike leaned over and all that shit. I made a lot of stupid choices and have gone down more than I want to admit (mainly early in my riding career)... and have had some close calls due solely to me being too aggressive and being unable to manage my bike's speed. I would say now I am decent on the bike; maybe 20-30% of the way to being a legitimately good rider (no track time yet, only about 10K miles ridden)

Your wearing jeans when you ride? You are now comfortable "getting the bike leaned over and shit"? Plus, you say that your bike riding involves "me being too aggressive" and "being unable to manage my bike's speed"? Finally, your "20-30% of the way"...?

Maybe you should take your own advice and get a smaller bike.

Not that you read it but I did mention that I would recommend my advice for getting a bigger bike if you can handle it should be used "sparingly". That advice wouldn't pertain to you. No offense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool The Kid View Post

Here is the thing with sportbikes and the people who feel like they need to start riding on them. Sport bikes require people who know what they are doing to be legitimately ridden safely (not luckily). At the minimum, someone who has the muscle memory of shit like shifting, braking, countersteering etc (which would come from the couple of months on a slow bike). And people who insist on starting on them and say 'you just have to respect the bike' are just lying to themselves to rationalize a stupid decision. "Respecting the bike" means knowing how to ride it and choosing a bike that matches your skill level. So suggesting that people should just buy whatever bike they want and see what happens because it happened to work for you is just too irresponsible to ignore. Its piss poor advice and should be pointed out as such. Sorry.

This is getting fucking ridiculous. Please quote where I said this. I'm sorry you can't understand what I'm posting or what I've said. Actually, I can see why you wouldn't understand what I said.
Edited by Tck13 - 8/16/13 at 9:46pm
post #3359 of 4526
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tck13 View Post


No, that's not what I said. I said that you're "good to go" (in your words) on a bike that you feel comfortable with AFTER you've at least taken a MSF course (or similar course). A bike that you feel confident handling and that isn't "terrifying" (as others have said). (Why would anyone buy a bike that they were "terrified" of or "terrified" to ride?) I felt completely comfortable with my choice of bike. I felt comfortable with the weight, the speed, the throttle response, etc. I was completely confident with all of those things. As I said, and I'll reiterate, if you're not comfortable with a bike you shouldn't get it. I was and I HAD experience with a bike before I bought my first bike.
Yes. If you don't have ANY experience or have been taught how to ride by your dad or your pappy or haven't been to any formal training class you're a recipe for disaster. Formal training classes will move someone with no experience to someone with approximately 6 months - 1.5 years of experience just from taking the class. That's a lot more experience than none.
 

 

I think you are missing the point.  Many  new riders think they are comfortable, especially after riding in a parking lot.  Problem is the world is not a parking lot.

 

Without any real world experience, formal training will move someone with no experience to about 2 months experience tops (vs a new rider with books that rides say 3 days a week).  You are fooling yourself if you think it is any more. 

 

I learned to ride in the days before slipper clutches so rev matching while downshifting was important, esp on damp roads.  Chirp that back wheel when dew is on the street and you will end up on the street.  Won't learn that in the parking lot. 

Learning to blip the throttle with the thumb and the index finger while simultaneously working the clutch with your middle and ring finger takes time and plenty practice.  Won't learn that in the parking lot because there is no need for it.

 

Learning how to handle a decreasing radius turn is another thing that won't happen in the parking lot. Hell handling curves in general is out

 

Now learning all this on a bike that can hit over 60 mph in first gear with only 1/4 twist of the throttle is pretty dumb.  Parking lots are for making sure you can modulate your clutch and for practicing not looking down at your hands and feet while attempting to ride.  Oh and getting used to hundreds of pounds between your legs.  But even after all that most newbies will still drop his/her bike at a red light, a stop sign, in front of his house, etc.  You won't get used to the weight until you really ride.  So why bog a new rider down with an excessively heavy motorcycle?  Why try to learn on a bike that makes more power than he/she can fathom much less control?  Pretty dumb.  And to advise anyone to do so is assinine at best.  IMHO of course


Edited by Rumpelstiltskin - 8/16/13 at 10:16pm
post #3360 of 4526
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by epb View Post

Couldn't part of that correlation be the universal practice of recommending smaller-displacement bikes by professional trainers? I'd lay odds that in the courses you took, not once did an instructor say "Ride whatever you want, long as your comfortable."

Sure they did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by epb View Post

It's friends and family that push for starting on larger bikes, using pretty much the same rationales you've been arguing against.

No, it's idiots that push people for starting on bikes that the rider can't handle. That's called peer pressure. NEVER have I said that anyone should get anything that someone else pressures them into getting and never did I say that someone should buy a bike that doesn't feel comfortable or that they don't feel like they can't handle. Please quote me if you think I did. If not than stop attributing such ignorant bullshit to me. I never said it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumpelstiltskin View Post

I think you are missing the point.  Many  new riders think they are comfortable, especially after riding in a parking lot.  Problem is the world is not a parking lot.

You're right in that there are some arrogant people out there that are cocky with their abilities. Each rider has to know their own experience. I knew mine despite people on here telling me I didn't. I know myself better than anyone on the interwebzzz.
Quote:
Originally Posted by epb View Post

Without any real world experience, formal training will move someone with no experience to about 2 months experience tops (vs a new rider with books that rides say 3 days a week).  You are fooling yourself if you think it is any more. 

We'll have to agree to disagree about that. I read what I posted on the MSF site somewhere or on my motorcycle insurance or something like that. Unfortunately I can't find it to quote it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by epb View Post

I learned to ride in the days before slipper clutches so rev matching while downshifting was important, esp on damp roads.  Chirp that back wheel when dew is on the street and you will end up on the street.  Won't learn that in the parking lot. 

I remember going over things like that in my class and actually practicing it. Although, the MSF course has gotten a lot more laid back since I've gone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by epb View Post

Learning to blip the throttle with the thumb and the index finger while simultaneously working the clutch with your middle and ring finger takes time and plenty practice.  Won't learn that in the parking lot because there is no need for it.

?
Quote:
Originally Posted by epb View Post

Learning how to handle a decreasing radius turn is another thing that won't happen in the parking lot. Hell handling curves in general is out

I remember going over this stuff quite clearly. Perhaps classes are different? We actually had training in the rain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by epb View Post

Now learning all this on a bike that can hit over 60 mph in first gear with only 1/4 twist of the throttle is pretty dumb. 

Absolutely. Especially if you're not familiar with a bike or the way it handles. Once again, I never said that you should buy a Hayabusa or even an R1 as a first bike. My bike was a Sportster twin basically. So, a quarter turn on the throttle was quite a bit different from turning the throttle on a 1000cc sportbike. Different torque and all of that. Which, actually, if you go back and read the original posting it says that they can be good bikes for beginners (cruisers - not sportbikes).
Quote:
Originally Posted by epb View Post

Parking lots are for making sure you can modulate your clutch and for practicing not looking down at your hands and feet while attempting to ride.  Oh and getting used to hundreds of pounds between your legs.  But even after all that most newbies will still drop his/her bike at a red light, a stop sign, in front of his house, etc.  You won't get used to the weight until you really ride.  So why bog a new rider down with an excessively heavy motorcycle?  A bike that makes more power than he/she can fathom much less control?

Parking lots are for testing every aspect of a bike whether it's your first or fifth bike. If you've read the Hurt Report you'll know that accidents are very common even amongst riders with a lot of experience when they're riding and unfamiliar bike.
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