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Motorcycles - Page 221

post #3301 of 4522
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by epb View Post

Your responses indicate a radical, almost willfull misreading of the text.

"Radical"? "Misreading"? Not at all. You don't have any nuance to your claims which strikes me as odd. Perhaps you're a highly skilled rider with a lot of training? But at this point I'm willing to bet that A) you don't own a bike and B) you don't have or have very little "training" at riding a bike. amirite? Not that not owning or having little experience is a bad thing at all, it's not. But preaching is just that; preaching.
Quote:
Originally Posted by epb View Post

In short, I'm acknowledging that while it's possible for people to figure out how to ride a motorcycle with no training on a poorly-chosen bike, it's not the best way to learn.

No disagreement regarding no training but you can choose a bike larger than a 750cc and do just fine.

I never said anyone should start riding with no training on a poorly chosen bike. I think every person should have training, especially formal training before riding a bike.

However, I don't believe for a second that everyone should be forced to get training (or, maybe they should have at least an MSF course) or to buy a 750cc or less just because you think / others think that they can't either handle the size of the bike or the power. Believe it or not, they can. Do I recommend it? Not always, but it certainly can and does happen and buying a 1300cc as my first official bike (I had a YZF-R1 first - long story) worked out great for me. As a matter of fact, the power of that bike was PERFECT for me as was the size of the bike. It fit like a glove. Plus, I bought it knowing that it was probably going to get dropped at some point and was going to get scratched up, it was going to get used and abused, etc. I didn't waste several hundred or thousand dollars on a bike I wasn't going to ride the hell out of and fully enjoy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by epb View Post

This is not a radical concept - it applies to pretty much all walks of life; playing guitar, computer programming, poetry, fighting, neurosurgery. In the end, the person pursuing any endeavor has to decide whether they want to do the best they can or just get by - really learn to play, or just learn the opening riff to "Smoke On The Water." I'm of the view that a new rider's main focus should be on learning to ride well, with strong grounding in the fundamentals of riding technique, safety practices, and bike maintenance. Then again, I'm also of the opinion people playing intruments should be able to read music and people writing novels should know sentence structure and the rules of grammar.


You don't agree? I've got great news - you don't have to!

You're right, I don't agree. Why? While I'm of basically the same mindset regarding doing something completely and learning as much as one can about it, who the fuck are you to tell everyone what they should do and what they're interest or skill level should be to operate a motorcycle, play the guitar, drums, operate a computer, etc. Are you the skill police? Did you ever hear Ringo Starr play the drums for one of the biggest bands of all time? Perhaps you would have banned him from the group? Do you think that Larry Mullen Junior is a virtuoso? Are you going to go to the Harley Dealership and tell them that they can't sell a Fatboy to someone because they don't think they have enough experience to ride it? Sometimes stupid people do stupid things. Natural selection happens unfortunately.
Quote:
Originally Posted by epb View Post

The hope is that when new riders go looking for viewpoints on a first bike, they see various ones from experienced riders and decide what will work for them.

Absolutely, and I am an experienced rider having ridden for several years riding all year round (unless below freezing) putting 7k - 8k miles a year on my bike. Of course, I didn't even consider buying a bike until I took the MSF training course (twice) and purchasing gear (which evolved over time - as did my riding style). As my first instructor / mentor pointed out, "this class just gives you enough skill to go to the parking lot and practice". He was very right and that's just what I did. It took a couple of months before I felt ready to even go on an hour ride on the highway to where I worked at the time. And then I spent hours picking up my bike, doing slow speed drills / turns / braking, reading books and watching videos about the topic, etc. Not that I'm a superstar rider, I only have 3-5 years of total experience but I think I've done more than ok. I would've been bored with a small bike in about 6 months.
Quote:
Originally Posted by epb View Post

You're more than welcome to state your views on the topic, as I did, and let them stand. No need to clutter the thread with anecdotes about how cousin Billy-Bob learned on a Ducati 916 when he was 12 and went on to when the Isle of Man TT.

rolleyes.gif
Edited by Tck13 - 8/14/13 at 7:55pm
post #3302 of 4522

Being bored with a small bike doesn't mean being able to drive a big one... The new Kawasaki 300 ninja is in my opinion the best beginner bike there is today.

 

Starting with 100+ hp, or even almost 200 on a R-1, on a first bike is complete nonsense. Surviving the first year means either you're only using half of it, rendering it totally useless compared to a cheaper R6 if we stay in sports yamaha, or you're just very lucky.

 

Everybody can get lucky and survive a few years without a scratch, that doesn't makes it ok to say that anybody can go on and start with a superbike. Telling somebody to go with something according to their skill is just common sense especially when deadly crashes are involved.

post #3303 of 4522
Starting on anything but a <500cc is not a good idea, no matter how well you "survive" it. Telling folks 'hey I started on an R1, I survived, you might survive too' is the height of irresponsibility & bad advice, no matter how much you try to rationalize it. Riding is dangerous enough, no need to worsen the odds with bad advice
post #3304 of 4522
Here is a link to a ride report I posted about a day trip from Sapa Vietnam in June: http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=911944
post #3305 of 4522
nvm
Edited by epb - 8/14/13 at 6:04pm
post #3306 of 4522
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Smith View Post

Here is a link to a ride report I posted about a day trip from Sapa Vietnam in June: http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=911944

Nice write-up! Is the Nuovo a motorcycle or a scooter - from the pics, it looks like you guys have a mix of both...
post #3307 of 4522
Quote:
Originally Posted by epb View Post

Nice write-up! Is the Nuovo a motorcycle or a scooter - from the pics, it looks like you guys have a mix of both...

I had the black one. It is a step through frame, scooterish motorcycle, very typical of what they have in Vietnam. I think there is a blurry line between scooter and motorcycle. They use a lot of Hondas and Yamahas. I asked someone about Chinese bikes and she told me that the Chinese ones are less expensive but have a reputation for low quality.

That is consistent with my experience renting a Chinese bike in Laos. That bike was an ergonomic nightmare. I had to take my foot completely off the peg to shift up or down. I could not sit in such a way that my right toe was above the brake pedal. Here is a pic of a couple the Chinese bikes ridden by my Dutch riding buddies and two girls who went with us. The bike with only one rider has a flat. This pic was in the countryside near Thakek, Laos.

ATGATT SE Asian Style!

post #3308 of 4522
double post
post #3309 of 4522
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Smith View Post

ATGATT SE Asian Style!

What's killing me is the flip-flops. smile.gif
post #3310 of 4522
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SplasH View Post

Being bored with a small bike doesn't mean being able to drive a big one... The new Kawasaki 300 ninja is in my opinion the best beginner bike there is today.

Starting with 100+ hp, or even almost 200 on a R-1, on a first bike is complete nonsense. Surviving the first year means either you're only using half of it, rendering it totally useless compared to a cheaper R6 if we stay in sports yamaha, or you're just very lucky.

Everybody can get lucky and survive a few years without a scratch, that doesn't makes it ok to say that anybody can go on and start with a superbike. Telling somebody to go with something according to their skill is just common sense especially when deadly crashes are involved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool The Kid View Post

Starting on anything but a <500cc is not a good idea, no matter how well you "survive" it. Telling folks 'hey I started on an R1, I survived, you might survive too' is the height of irresponsibility & bad advice, no matter how much you try to rationalize it. Riding is dangerous enough, no need to worsen the odds with bad advice


I knew this was going to happen. I see that misinterpreting what I wrote is happening already which is typical as most people don't read very well (if you're replying to my post).

I never suggested that people should start riding on an R1. I knew that I shouldn't have put it in my post as people would think that I started seriously riding on that bike which I didn't. It was a trade in at a car dealership that I worked at so I bought it to sell and make some money. I took it for a couple of small tools around the neighborhood (and I had already taken an MSF course) but it certainly wasn't a good "first bike" for me which isn't why I got it anyway. I assume that if anyone has the ability to read that they may understand but I don't have much faith in that.

My first serious bike was a Honda VTX 1300 Cruiser which is the same size as a Harley Sportster. When I got it I had more than one MSF course (beginning and advanced) and many hours of practice under my belt before heading out for any serious riding. The bike was extremely comfortable, fit my 6', 225lb frame very well and the power was perfect. Enough to get me out of any trouble on the road yet not underpowered.

As I said earlier, (and since I need to make extra clear what I stated in my original posts) starting out with no experience on a bike that you can't handle is a stupid idea. Why is that even a part of the discussion? Why would anyone be even getting a bike without any experience? There are plenty of free courses that you can take that will give you some great experience for riding a bike and one doesn't even need a bike.

I could handle my bike (VTX) very well and rode within my experience (not that I didn't have a lot to learn - even after several years there's still much more to learn). I wasn't "lucky" and surviving "a few years" with "a superbike". A VTX or Sportster is far from a superbike. Plus if my (or anyone's) skill level matches that of a Sportster or even something like a Deuce I really don't see the purpose in wasting the money buying a Ninja 300 when it's not something that they like or want to ride and they can easily skill-wise handle a bigger bike with more cc's (like a Sportster, Bonneville, Honda 1300 , BMW 800 or 1100 enduro) I'd say go for it. I'm so glad I didn't waste my money and I loved my bike. I knew my limits regarding experience and $. To each his own.
Edited by Tck13 - 8/14/13 at 9:35pm
post #3311 of 4522
Quote:
Originally Posted by epb View Post


What's killing me is the flip-flops. smile.gif


They're carbon fiber

post #3312 of 4522

Repurposed BMW R65.  Totally impractical/impossible to ride over 20 mph yet eye catching

 

Surfboard motorcycle

Surfboard motorcycle

Surfboard motorcycle

Surfboard motorcycle

Surfboard motorcycle

Surfboard motorcycle

 

post #3313 of 4522

So i tried youtube for motorcycle jacket reviews, so i could see them on people under normal lighting, not stock photos, and the only thing I could find is this entire culture of leather daddy's that post vids of them smoking in leather gear... what in the fuck, i don't even... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUU_2XEXy3s

post #3314 of 4522

Ooo damn, that custom leather seat looks so much better than most attempts you see. Love the choice of leather, too.

post #3315 of 4522
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumpelstiltskin View Post

Repurposed BMW R65.  Totally impractical/impossible to ride over 20 mph yet eye catching
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Surfboard motorcycle

Surfboard motorcycle

Surfboard motorcycle

Surfboard motorcycle

Surfboard motorcycle

Surfboard motorcycle



That's cool--although it seems like a better solution would be a mini trailer (use the board as the frame--attached to the bike on one end and with a wheel strapped to the other end).

Do those BMWs have trouble if they get tapped in a parking spot (by a parallel parking car) or knocked over? Seems like the cylinders would be especially vulnerable.
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