One of the reason American carmakers are in trouble: engines - Page 2

Yeah, I could see that. You have the experience with it, I don't. The tables I was looking at did indeed have only a couple pollutants in common--as an example, it looked like the EU regulates PM but the US. Although, on a side note, I find that baffling as the pollutants we are all concerned with are the same. Anyway....


bob

Couldn't agree more. You'd be doubly baffled by the rest of the things on the list--door beams are plastic, need to be replaced by metal (nothing about performance), windows need to be rewired so they can't function when the car is off (can't let that kid whose dumbass mom left him locked in the car have a way out!) and a half dozen little things that are going to add up to be pretty pricey.

Tom

One turbo.

Despite the weight distribution, I am convinced the 9-5 Aero handles quite a bit better than a last-gen base 5-series (530). This is largely due to more expensive suspension components and tires in the high end Aero model versus the base 530. I haven't driven the new fiver so I can't compare that one. Obviously the BMW will outhandle the Saab if it has an equivalent sport suspension.

And oh yeah, by the way, it's a lot better in the snow and ice and it costs about $10k less than the BMW.

American cars are counter-intuititive and under-designed like Mac! Yes!

Top Gear did a segment on the 9-5 Aero where they raced it versus a Harrier -- yes the jet airplane. It was hilarious (the Harrier won). Here's what they said about the Aero's performance from 40-70:

"And then there's the midrange clout. The rate this thing (the 9-5 Aero) goes in second gear from 40-70 MPH is just (laughing as he drives the car) sensational. For overtaking a lorry, not to mention a 5-series BMW, this will do it quicker than a Porsche 911 turbo. Stepping on the throttle in second gear gives you some idea of what it would be like to tread on a land mine."

-- Top Gear

Or instead of the S4 you can get the 9-5, plus five bespoke suits from the Row. Hmmmm.

Tires have a lot to do with it, then, but thinking your 9-5 handles better than a 5er* indicates more of a preference for the characteristics of FWD than anything else. Most car nut purists prefer RWD on everything, though I don't. I like RWD on sports cars, and FWD on sedans. I that is a product of the kinds of cars I grew up around, which were Triumph sports cars and Citroën GTs/sedans with the occasional Mercedes or Volvo estate thrown in. (The Cits were always way cooler than the Mercs or Volvos to me, though now I have an appreciation for the solidity of the W124 that I didn't at age 12.)

Then again, I have a very dim view of so-called sports sedans anyway. Anyone who thinks a giant, 3000+ lb behemoth is supposed to have any handling characteristics beyond mush is simply deluding themselves or has not driven a car with truly great handling. (By "handling" I am referring to feel rather than raw numbers, because almost any type of car can have high skidpad and even slalom numbers. Great numbers without great communication is the worst kind of car.) The only truly good-handling sedans ever were the smallest ones, like the Alfa 1750GTV, Lotus Cortina, and BMW 2000/2002/320i. Because of the obesity of modern autos, few examples of great-handling moderns exist. Even BMW has left the building recently, at least with their eponymous cars. Cars such as the Elise, Mini, MX-5, S2000, and RX-8 are all that's left.

*As an aside, the old 5 was better than the new one, with much more communicative steering, a nicer interior, and un-Bangled exterior styling. The new one has more advanced engines, which is a pity because everything else about them is a step back.

The M Z4 Coupe will be a blast when that comes out. Hopefully it will hang around long enough for them to put the E90 M3's V8 in it. It's currently using the E46 M3's S54.

--Andre

Size-wise, maybe. Bulk-wise, at around two tons they've both left the building long, long ago. My experience with the S4 (admittedly, the old biturbo one, not the new V8 one) is that it while it can cover ground as well as anything from anyone, it's too ponderous (especially on initial turn-in) to be any fun. I'd rather drive an Impreza, personally, though its steering leaves something to be desired as well. Or just give up on this silly fiction of the "sports sedan" entirely.


The 1er is in its way every bit as stupid as the Solstice. It's a four (or five!) door two seater, for God's sake! There is no possible way to fit 4 people sized 5'5" or greater into that thing. A Fiat Panda is a more practical car, and probably more fun to drive, too.

i agree to a large extent; however, in today's car market, there is a viable segment of "sports sedans" whereas there might not have been such a market 20-25 years ago. some people do want the creature comforts (AC, nice stereo, 4+ airbags, power steering, nav, dual climate control, etc) as well as performance. in all honesty, its hard to put all of these things in a car, build it to meet safety and environmental regulation, and be able to sell it... car mfgs do their best. the rs4 is a step in exactly the right direction. it might cost a lot, however, we are starting to see sedans with room for 4 (or 5) and 4 doors and a good sized truck with all of the features a 35k+ car should have (i realize the rs4 is upwards of 70 or 80), yet still be an absolute blast to drive on the track or on the way to the grocery store. if audi skimped on the luxury items, they would hurt their image as a luxury brand. if they wimped out on the performance, people would say its just another bloated s4 (what a shame that car has gotten so piggish). then there is the elise/exige side of things.. which is another good direction. of course, lotus intentionally left out a lot of luxury to keep weight down, but no one would ever buy one as their daily driver. they are weekend cars or track cars.. the sports sedan is a growing market and im glad to see it evolving. im on my second sports sedan, and this is the market for me for a very long time. i would be sad to think what i have now is as good as it gets... not that i like the solstice, but how is a 4 or 5 door car every bit as stupid as a 2 door roadster? and the sky redline is actually a pretty slick car. if i needed a second car, i wouldnt mind having that in the garage.