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post #61 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky Strike
I don't really know enough about South America to discuss the political history there - but when it comes to Scandinavia and others, I think you also have to distinguish between socialism and social democracy as different approaches.

This is not mere semantics - the "democracy" bit relates to participating in elections, and working within and on the conditions of an existing political system.

Many European socialist/leftist groups have chosen to organise themselves as pressure groups or other associations rather than political parties, precisely because they don't want to be "corrupted" by participating in the existing sysems.



Trying to separate "socialism" and "social democracy" as distinct political ideologies is a logically flawed approach. It is like saying that fruit grown on trees and bananas are two separate entities distinguishable by more than mere semantics. Well, yes and no. But you're comparing a group and a member of the group as if they are both members, which is logically flawed for obvious reasons. The only way to compare "a banana" and "fruit grown on trees" is to say that "a banana", "an apple", and "an orange" are all "fruit grown on trees." They are child members (communism, democratic socialism, etc) of a parent group (Socialism).

Socialism itself is a political philosophy, and that's it. The Communist Party of the former USSR was one of the systems influenced by Socialist philosopy. The Labour Party (England) is a major political party in a "democratic" system, but also a product of Socialist philosophy. It's worthwhile to note here that The Labour Party does not call itself "Social Democrat", but rather "Democratic Socialists". The AFL-CIO labor union is also a "socialist" organization, and it's (or the AFL's) founder, Samuel Gompers, made a run for the Presidency (and almost won), and was a major figure of early socialism in the US.

Socialism has had a direct and profound impact on European politics throughout the entire continent. Some countries changed their entire governments (such as the USSR), and others merely adapted socialist philosophy into working political parties that could function in existing governments (such as The Labour Party in England). Most often, the latter case was the most successful, of course. As Orwell once stated, in order to have a revolution, you need to find a guy who's even more willing than the last to kill everyone who doesn't agree with him. For obvious reasons, that generally leads to fairly non-user-friendly governments, such as those in China and the USSR.

Someone else said that Latin America suffers polarization in their politics. This is untrue. In Chile, there are multiple viable parties in each election, about 8-12 of them actually. Unless one candidate recieves a huge majority of the vote, there is a second election in which voters choose from the 3 candidates who received the most votes in the first election. It is rare to see any candidate win by a large margin, so there is always a second run-off election. It is only recently that Latin America has experienced any polarization in their politics, and that is mostly pro-US or anti-US, which has affected many different parties, but they remain different parties.

The USA probably suffers the worst polarization of any modern republic, although that could start a whole new thread on its own.
post #62 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by LabelKing
Anything illegal, especially substances, makes for flagrant misuse and possibly absue.


Anal sex is illegal in some states in the USA. Applying your logic in that case is certainly an interesting proposal.



That being said, I know quite a few people who smoke herb, and prefer it to alcohol. I'm not sure they "misuse" or "abuse" it. Actually, I'd have to think that alcohol, tobacco, caffeine, ritalin, methadone, and numerous legal narcotics enjoy a much higher rate of "flagrant misuse" and "abuse" than marijuana by a HUGE margin.

Marijuana is probably the most harmless mind-altering substance you could ingest. At worst, you get a case of munchies and end up wasting an afternoon. Big whoop.

What cracks me up is people who drink alcohol, but are critical of marijuana use. The reasons why that is absurd are too numerous to even list here.
post #63 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by linux_pro
Anal sex is illegal in some states in the USA. Applying your logic in that case is certainly an interesting proposal.



That being said, I know quite a few people who smoke herb, and prefer it to alcohol. I'm not sure they "misuse" or "abuse" it. Actually, I'd have to think that alcohol, tobacco, caffeine, ritalin, methadone, and numerous legal narcotics enjoy a much higher rate of "flagrant misuse" and "abuse" than marijuana by a HUGE margin.

Marijuana is probably the most harmless mind-altering substance you could ingest. At worst, you get a case of munchies and end up wasting an afternoon. Big whoop.

What cracks me up is people who drink alcohol, but are critical of marijuana use. The reasons why that is absurd are too numerous to even list here.

I do know people who smoke a lot, BUT not enough for it to lead to any kind of disruption or loss of mental ability (their memory however is at times sketchy...).

Jon.
post #64 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by linux_pro
Anal sex is illegal in some states in the USA. Applying your logic in that case is certainly an interesting proposal.
Actually, the Supreme Court invalidated these state laws over two years ago in Lawrence v. Texas.
post #65 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funeral Wog
sorry to post again, l don't know how to work the forum properly yet.

The problem l found with the combination of injecting coke/meth with with lots of extremely long sex sessions is that l find it hard to achieve an errection anymore. Sex is virtually impossible and my sex drive is completely shot. lt was still worth it though. These days l generally give women oral sex because sex is difficult.


Thanks for sharing Ronny.
post #66 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by iammatt
Thanks for sharing Ronny.

LMFAO.

Jon.
post #67 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by linux_pro
Trying to separate "socialism" and "social democracy" as distinct political ideologies is a logically flawed approach.

(...)

Socialism itself is a political philosophy, and that's it. The Communist Party of the former USSR was one of the systems influenced by Socialist philosopy.

(...)

As Orwell once stated, in order to have a revolution, you need to find a guy who's even more willing than the last to kill everyone who doesn't agree with him. For obvious reasons, that generally leads to fairly non-user-friendly governments, such as those in China and the USSR.

I don't really think we disagree that much - in the sense that they're all bolsheviks of some shade. It's a difference of degree, and not of principle.

On the other hand, I think you'd be hard pressed to find an active member of a modern (say post-WWII) European Labour party who still advocates revolution. The end-goals of Socialism, Communism and social democracy are far more similar than the methods the different shades of bolshevism are willing to put to use.

To be blunt; my impression of the different degrees of Socialism is they can distinguished from each other by their different views on whether the end (the socialist ideal) justifies the means (revolution, terrorism, rigging elections, unpalatable politcal alliances, or just plain political discussion and campaigning - of course, the latter methods are where most of the rest of the political spectrum try to draw the line, at least officially).

The different varieties of Communists and Fascists have not been the only ones to consistently advocate politically motivated violence as a perfectly adequate political tool, but I consider them the most important ones in modern history, along with the latter-day radical islamists. Other ideologies at least claim to view violence as a last resort, more or less in the Clausewitz tradition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by linux_pro
The USA probably suffers the worst polarization of any modern republic, although that could start a whole new thread on its own.

I quite agree - I've tried following this debate in the US, but I'm not really well-grounded enough in US politics to form an opinion yet. It does seem to me, though
post #68 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by linux_pro
They are child members (communism, democratic socialism, etc) of a parent group (Socialism).

Socialism itself is a political philosophy, and that's it. The Communist Party of the former USSR was one of the systems influenced by Socialist philosopy.

I think you'll find that Engels' and Marx's "Communist Manifesto" (1848) pre-dates the word "Socialism" in its modern (well, Marxist) sense. Marx changed the ideas of early Socialism enough to alter Socialism's entire view. This is arguable, of course, but I have to regard Karl "Voldemort" Marx as the father of socialism and social democracy as we know them. The "utopian Socialism" that pre-dates Marx might just as well be labelled "Anarchism", "Anarcho-Syndicalism" or "Nihilism".

I've read the Manifesto a long time ago - it exhibits the double features of being both boring and frightening, much like Lenin's "What is to be done" and "Mein Kampf", for that matter. (I admit I only read half of Hitler, - he's just too fragmented and incoherent.) Guevera's handbook in guerilla warfare is to be recommended, though - it's one of the most dangerous books ever written, I think.

http://www.anu.edu.au/polsci/marx/cl...manifesto.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_socialism
post #69 of 117
(Yawn)........now, where were we? Oh yeah. (Ffffffffffft) Hey man, you makin' love to that thing? Why don'tcha pass it over here. (Fffffffffffft)
post #70 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota rube
(Yawn)........now, where were we? Oh yeah.

(Ffffffffffft) Hey man, you makin' love to that thing? Why don'tcha pass it over here. (Fffffffffffft)

Yes, we have now learned that stoners and non-stoners alike like socialist-based discussions.

Jon.
post #71 of 117
I'm blazed right now.
post #72 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by linux_pro
Anal sex is illegal in some states in the USA. Applying your logic in that case is certainly an interesting proposal.



That being said, I know quite a few people who smoke herb, and prefer it to alcohol. I'm not sure they "misuse" or "abuse" it. Actually, I'd have to think that alcohol, tobacco, caffeine, ritalin, methadone, and numerous legal narcotics enjoy a much higher rate of "flagrant misuse" and "abuse" than marijuana by a HUGE margin.

Marijuana is probably the most harmless mind-altering substance you could ingest. At worst, you get a case of munchies and end up wasting an afternoon. Big whoop.

What cracks me up is people who drink alcohol, but are critical of marijuana use. The reasons why that is absurd are too numerous to even list here.

That is why people become so excited over depictions/descriptions of sodomy but not vaginal sex.
post #73 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by imageWIS
Was he toking while he told you this? I have no idea for sure; I have to assume that some of it does get invariably inhaled.
Jon.
inhaling of the smoke is absolutely unavoidable, but apparently most of the cannabinoids in smoke get absorbed into the smoker's bloodstream instantly, meaning the cannabinoid levels in any exhaled smoke are basically negligible

this would also mean that holding in marijuana smoke is pretty senseless, but i dunno... holding in the smoke always seems to get me higher. that could be attributed to some sorta placebo effect, though

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renault78law
nope, I haven't smoked since law school. I'm more curious as to which of us use coke...
i've done a bit of coke, but i'm too much of a pussy to do addictive drugs regularly

i do drop acid (lsd) semi-regularly though (every couple of weeks)
post #74 of 117
also please continue discussing socialism and communism, please

i am learning a lot
post #75 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funeral Wog
Anal sex is more intense, hence more exciting. Stimulant drugs lead to dirty sex.

Are you a pathic, shooman?

aus_MD
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