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post #16 of 27
M, you are right, but this isn't the whole story - in colombia, my wife, who is red haired, was considered "jewish", her cousin in law, who is wheat colored, calls himself "spanish", and refers to "indians" and "blacks". maybe not nice, but it happens.
post #17 of 27
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stu, i don't know what 'idiosyncratic' means so i looked it up and i still don't know what it means. anyway, you know what i meant and i know what you meant. there are some white puerto ricans, as well as black ones, and they are no less puerto rican because they don't look like j.lo. i'm sensitive to this issue because when i meet knew people they often say to me, "oh, you don't look mexican," which couldn't be further from the truth. it's also annoying to hear people say "he's not black. he's puerto rican."
But Matador, you don't write like a Mexican. By idiosyncratic I meant some physical traits that are very Puerto Rican, distinct to Puerto Rico. I've been here many years and when my wife describes the new husband of one of her friends to me and tells me he's "bien boricua" (a derivation of Borinquen, the Taino Indian word for Puerto Rico), I know exactly what she is talking about. As for the sensitive issue, there is a level of stupidity in the states that is deeply ingrained about these issues. My wife and I were visiting my folks in Indiana one time, and some of my parents' really stupid redneck friends came over to visit and the lady said to my wife:  "You've got a lovely tan." ROTFLMAO
post #18 of 27
I recall listening to an interview on NPR about which term to use in describing people from various Spanish-speaking regions such as Mexico or Spain. Very confusing and plenty of controversy. And what do you do with Brasil, if we're talking Latin America? I'm not sure why one would try and find a term for all. I guess it is useful for US government forms. Anyhow, in the francophone world, I don't see anybody attempting a definition according to language or culture. With a mixed bag containing old Vietnamese gentlemen, Belgian schoolgirls, Algerian journalists, Senegalese businessmen or French wine makers, I'd be at a loss. I just watched the St Jean-Baptiste celebrations in Montreal last night, and the diversity there was mind-boggling.
post #19 of 27
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Anyhow, in the francophone world, I don't see anybody attempting a definition according to language or culture.  With a mixed bag containing old Vietnamese gentlemen, Belgian schoolgirls, Algerian journalists, Senegalese businessmen or French wine makers, I'd be at a loss.  I just watched the St Jean-Baptiste celebrations in Montreal last night, and the diversity there was mind-boggling.
looking at it as an outsider (and by that I mean that this is my impression, and may be either incorrect or different from how a french person would see it) it seems that one of the most admirable aspects of french culture is its inclusiveness of anybody, who embraces the culture, regardless of race, religion, etc. I have known jewish, black, and asian french, and they all seemed to be perfectly integrated into the fabric of society. it seems that the only real issue is if you want to embrace the french culture or not. those minorities that do not want to be part are then treated less well.
post #20 of 27
You know, I was at the BMV last week, and a Mexican man was trying to make himself understood, using broken English and Spanish. The employee kept shouting: "I don't speak Spanish, you need to speak English", dismissing him with a gesture of the hand. He was trying, but she was not willing to deal with his accent or poor vocabulary. Finally, I stepped in even though I don't speak Spanish. I had understood enough of what he needed to do to help. The employee did not thank me, instead tried to get me to sympathize with her.
post #21 of 27
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You know, I was at the BMV last week, and a Mexican man was trying to make himself understood, using broken English and Spanish.  The employee kept shouting: "I don't speak Spanish, you need to speak English", dismissing him with a gesture of the hand.  He was trying, but she was not willing to deal with his accent or poor vocabulary.  Finally, I stepped in even though I don't speak Spanish.  I had understood enough of what he needed to do to help.  The employee did not thank me, instead tried to get me to sympathize with her.
yes, but this is another issue - for the first time America really has a huge immigrant population that is getting by well without learning english. in the past people, espectially young people, have tried to learn english and integrate. today, a very large percentage of the immigrants to the US are coming from spanish speaking countries, and they are able to get through life without learning english. this is causing a whole different set of issues. but to be perfectly clear - I don't condone the clerk's lack of manners or his attitude, and I believe that a solution should be found for making sure that government agencies have adequete language skills available.
post #22 of 27
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(Stu @ June 24 2005,08:55)
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Originally Posted by globetrotter,June 24 2005,06:53
this type of question gets less and less relevant in todays world, or at least more difficult to answer: I was born in the US. my mother was born in canada, her parents were born in a village that changed hands between russia, poland, and germany over the years.  my father was born in the states, his mothers fathers family has been in the states since the mayflower, his mothers mother family came to the states in the past 100 years from england, previous of  holland and spain. his fathers family came over around the potato famine, as indentured workers. I have lived in 5 countries, on 3 continents. my son was born in israel, my wife was born in colombia. her father was born in brazil, her mother born in columbia. her great grandparents were born in the ukraine, romania, and russia, her grandparents born in colombia and romania.
Damn Globe.  And here I was impressed with my daughter's ethnic and religious lineage: Swiss, German, Basque, Spanish, Puerto Rican, African, Taino Indian, Southern Indiana Redneck, Catholic, Mennonite, Methodist
yeah, but with all that mix, my son looks like he could be german or  anglo saxon - he didn't get a drop of any interesting color. we have a friend who child has coffee skin with sandy hair and blue eyes, just stunning.
Take out some of those Michael Jackson records lately, globetrotter?
post #23 of 27
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(globetrotter @ June 24 2005,09:02)
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Originally Posted by Stu,June 24 2005,08:55
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Originally Posted by globetrotter,June 24 2005,06:53
this type of question gets less and less relevant in todays world, or at least more difficult to answer: I was born in the US. my mother was born in canada, her parents were born in a village that changed hands between russia, poland, and germany over the years.  my father was born in the states, his mothers fathers family has been in the states since the mayflower, his mothers mother family came to the states in the past 100 years from england, previous of  holland and spain. his fathers family came over around the potato famine, as indentured workers. I have lived in 5 countries, on 3 continents. my son was born in israel, my wife was born in colombia. her father was born in brazil, her mother born in columbia. her great grandparents were born in the ukraine, romania, and russia, her grandparents born in colombia and romania.
Damn Globe.  And here I was impressed with my daughter's ethnic and religious lineage: Swiss, German, Basque, Spanish, Puerto Rican, African, Taino Indian, Southern Indiana Redneck, Catholic, Mennonite, Methodist
yeah, but with all that mix, my son looks like he could be german or  anglo saxon - he didn't get a drop of any interesting color. we have a friend who child has coffee skin with sandy hair and blue eyes, just stunning.
Take out some of those Michael Jackson records lately, globetrotter?
? sorry, that went over my head
post #24 of 27
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As for the sensitive issue, there is a level of stupidity in the states that is deeply ingrained about these issues. My wife and I were visiting my folks in Indiana one time, and some of my parents' really stupid redneck friends came over to visit and the lady said to my wife: "You've got a lovely tan."
I would think a great response to this would be, "Thank you for noticing. I don't even have to work at it."
post #25 of 27
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(PHV @ June 27 2005,09:47)
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Originally Posted by globetrotter,June 24 2005,09:02
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Originally Posted by Stu,June 24 2005,08:55
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Originally Posted by globetrotter,June 24 2005,06:53
this type of question gets less and less relevant in todays world, or at least more difficult to answer: I was born in the US. my mother was born in canada, her parents were born in a village that changed hands between russia, poland, and germany over the years.  my father was born in the states, his mothers fathers family has been in the states since the mayflower, his mothers mother family came to the states in the past 100 years from england, previous of  holland and spain. his fathers family came over around the potato famine, as indentured workers. I have lived in 5 countries, on 3 continents. my son was born in israel, my wife was born in colombia. her father was born in brazil, her mother born in columbia. her great grandparents were born in the ukraine, romania, and russia, her grandparents born in colombia and romania.
Damn Globe.  And here I was impressed with my daughter's ethnic and religious lineage: Swiss, German, Basque, Spanish, Puerto Rican, African, Taino Indian, Southern Indiana Redneck, Catholic, Mennonite, Methodist
yeah, but with all that mix, my son looks like he could be german or  anglo saxon - he didn't get a drop of any interesting color. we have a friend who child has coffee skin with sandy hair and blue eyes, just stunning.
Take out some of those Michael Jackson records lately, globetrotter?
? sorry, that went over my head
I was joking. You were remarking how striking a kid you know is, I was making a cheap joke about pedophilia, but of course know that you mean nothing of the sort. I think asian kids are the cutest, followed by black kids.
post #26 of 27
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(globetrotter @ June 27 2005,09:52)
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Originally Posted by PHV,June 27 2005,09:47
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Originally Posted by globetrotter,June 24 2005,09:02
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Originally Posted by Stu,June 24 2005,08:55
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Originally Posted by globetrotter,June 24 2005,06:53
this type of question gets less and less relevant in todays world, or at least more difficult to answer: I was born in the US. my mother was born in canada, her parents were born in a village that changed hands between russia, poland, and germany over the years.  my father was born in the states, his mothers fathers family has been in the states since the mayflower, his mothers mother family came to the states in the past 100 years from england, previous of  holland and spain. his fathers family came over around the potato famine, as indentured workers. I have lived in 5 countries, on 3 continents. my son was born in israel, my wife was born in colombia. her father was born in brazil, her mother born in columbia. her great grandparents were born in the ukraine, romania, and russia, her grandparents born in colombia and romania.
Damn Globe.  And here I was impressed with my daughter's ethnic and religious lineage: Swiss, German, Basque, Spanish, Puerto Rican, African, Taino Indian, Southern Indiana Redneck, Catholic, Mennonite, Methodist
yeah, but with all that mix, my son looks like he could be german or  anglo saxon - he didn't get a drop of any interesting color. we have a friend who child has coffee skin with sandy hair and blue eyes, just stunning.
Take out some of those Michael Jackson records lately, globetrotter?
? sorry, that went over my head
I was joking. You were remarking how striking a kid you know is, I was making a cheap joke about pedophilia, but of course know that you mean nothing of the sort. I think asian kids are the cutest, followed by black kids.
I see, no problem, it looks like its a little early for my sense of humor to be up and running today yeah, I spend a good chunk of my weekends watching my kid play with other kids - when you don't have kids, you never really notice the kids, they are all one big noisy herd. when you sit around watching them, you see some kids are very good looking, and some are, well, really really less good looking.... what can you do. in my town, we have a lot of kids of mixed race parentage, for want of a more PC way of saying it. so in my son's class are a few african/caucasian kids, a lot of children of latin american roots, and a few asians and asian/caucasian kids. you see some of these kids and know that they will be very atractive adults.
post #27 of 27
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As for the sensitive issue, there is a level of stupidity in the states that is deeply ingrained about these issues. My wife and I were visiting my folks in Indiana one time, and some of my parents' really stupid redneck friends came over to visit and the lady said to my wife:  "You've got a lovely tan."
I would think a great response to this would be, "Thank you for noticing.  I don't even have to work at it."  
Yeah but that would have invited further discussion. And this couple might, and I say might, have a double digit IQ between them.
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