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Curt Schilling: HOFer?

post #1 of 123
3/24/09 at 11:51am
Thread Starter 
Now that Curt Schilling has officially retired, the debate has begun on whether he should be elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame. ESPN's Rob Neyer says yes, based primarily on comparing Schilling's stats that that of Catfish Hunter, who is in the HOF. What say you?
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post #2 of 123
3/24/09 at 11:54am
I say yes. I think what has to be considered along with his raw stats is how he was such a dominant post season pitcher. Although admittedly I am a red sox fan, Schilling played a roll in WS wins at other clubs prior to the sox and I think that counts for a lot. Personally I think stats can be misleading in the sense that they don't measure success when the stakes are high. Schilling performed tremendously when the stakes were the highest.
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post #3 of 123
3/24/09 at 11:57am
I say yes. Even with Philly he was crazy good. Always led the league in complete games. He is a throwback and deserves to be honored.
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post #4 of 123
3/24/09 at 12:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroStyles View Post
I say yes. Even with Philly he was crazy good. Always led the league in complete games. He is a throwback and deserves to be honored.

Nope, he a very good player but he has as many wins as Andy Petite. He has 3 20 win seasons, I'd like to see 5 or more. He falls just short IMO.
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post #5 of 123
3/24/09 at 12:18pm
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Originally Posted by Slopho View Post
Nope, he a very good player but he has as many wins as Andy Petite. He has 3 20 win seasons, I'd like to see 5 or more. He falls just short IMO.

I don't understand that. Are you the same type of guy who says A-Rod is the best player in baseball despite the fact he sucks in the post-season?
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post #6 of 123
3/24/09 at 12:23pm
Confucius says: If one must question your HOF worthiness, you are not worthy.
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post #7 of 123
3/24/09 at 12:29pm
I think post-season undoubtedly puts him in, though not in the first few ballots. Those post-season stats are just nasty:

11-2 in 19 starts with a 2.23 ERA (2.06 in WS), 120 strike outs, 33 walks
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post #8 of 123
3/24/09 at 12:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slopho View Post
Nope, he a very good player but he has as many wins as Andy Petite. He has 3 20 win seasons, I'd like to see 5 or more. He falls just short IMO.

Number of wins is a shitty measure of pitchers' accomplishpment, especially in this case. Petite spent all but 2,3 seasons of his career with the automatic-95-wins-a-season Yankees (not that the Rockets fared much worse when Petite played for them), while Schilling spent at least half of his career away from the winning environments of early 00s D-backs and Red Sox.


Schilling didn't win a Cy Young, but came dangerously close multiple times: second in 2004 to Johan Santana; second to teammate Randy Johnson in 2001 and 2002, and fourth in 1997 to Pedro Martinez. All of those winning pitchers had incredible seasons, by any standards, during those years.


And then, the numerous heroic playoff performance.
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post #9 of 123
3/24/09 at 12:37pm
I agree that he's in, and I also agree that he's probably not first ballot. Thats going to be increasingly hard to predict though, when players with better numbers start getting passed over due to steroid scandals and etc. I predict that many second or third ballot hof'ers will get in early instead of "better" players.
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post #10 of 123
3/24/09 at 12:47pm
Well, he'll be on the same ballot as Greg Maddux, and I think he will (and should) suffer by comparison. Maddux was unbelievable, and I was sad to see him retire.
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post #11 of 123
3/24/09 at 12:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTGuy View Post
I don't understand that. Are you the same type of guy who says A-Rod is the best player in baseball despite the fact he sucks in the post-season?

No, While I do think that A-Rod is in the top 5 players currently playing, I don't think he's the best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whacked View Post
Number of wins is a shitty measure of pitchers' accomplishpment, especially in this case. Petite spent all but 2,3 seasons of his career with the automatic-95-wins-a-season Yankees (not that the Rockets fared much worse when Petite played for them), while Schilling spent at least half of his career away from the winning environments of early 00s D-backs and Red Sox.


Schilling didn't win a Cy Young, but came dangerously close multiple times: second in 2004 to Johan Santana; second to teammate Randy Johnson in 2001 and 2002, and fourth in 1997 to Pedro Martinez. All of those winning pitchers had incredible seasons, by any standards, during those years.


And then, the numerous heroic playoff performance.

Yes, and Petite was part of the Yankees having 95 wins a year. They say you're only as good as your next day's starter. And Andy P is left handed. Which means he spends most of his time throwing to right handed hitters. Petite's ERA career wise is less than half an earned run higher than Schilling. I'm not saying one is better than the other, all I'm saying is that if you feel so strongly about Schilling getting in, you have to ask yourself if you feel Petite is a HOF as well.
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post #12 of 123
3/24/09 at 12:56pm
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Yankee fan haterade!!
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post #13 of 123
3/24/09 at 12:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokyo Slim View Post
I agree that he's in, and I also agree that he's probably not first ballot. Thats going to be increasingly hard to predict though, when players with better numbers start getting passed over due to steroid scandals and etc. I predict that many second or third ballot hof'ers will get in early instead of "better" players.

Good point. Pettite did 'roids.
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post #14 of 123
3/24/09 at 12:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTGuy View Post
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Yankee fan haterade!!

I'm an O's fan, I see enough of the Yankees that I have to have respect for their pitching staff. Schilling is good, but he had too many wasted years in Philly. Sorry.
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post #15 of 123
3/24/09 at 1:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTGuy View Post
Good point. Pettite did 'roids.

Ok, he may be tainted a little, but he came clean and basically said it was one season. Regardless his numbers are right in line with Schilling. If Schilling goes in Petite goes in. Jamie Moyer also goes in because he's got almost 35 more wins than Schilling.
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