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lefty's random dog thread. - Page 5

post #61 of 3745
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLibourel View Post
I've met some Rotts I'd like to own. Of course, you have many of the same problems that you do when owning an APBT--homeowner liability, that kind of thing. And a fair percentage are human aggressive and even owner aggressive. One dogwise friend of mine said he thought a mild-bloodline Rott made the best "scarecrow" dog possible--i.e., one that would deter potential home invaders without really being a dangerously aggressive dog.

A friend of mine sold a mild-bloodline Rott--an extremely nice dog who had once been a visitor in my home--to a fellow who owned a nursery (for plants) who was having theft problems. He continued to be ripped off. My pal suggested he replace Tonka the Rott with a Bandog from a breeder we know. After encountering those Bandogs, the nursery owner wisely concluded they would be wa-a-ay too much dog for him. Those are the same Bandogs I found so scary. I don't believe all Bandogs are that intense.

Bandogs in CA? Lucero? Holloway? What was the mix?

lefty
post #62 of 3745
Thread Starter 
Can your sheep dog play Pong? Paint the Mona Lisa? lefty
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post #63 of 3745
Thread Starter 
I'm stuck at home watching guys renovate my bathroom, so ...

Boxer heads:



Boxer bodies:



lefty
post #64 of 3745
I presume you're all discussing the power of a dog's 'bite' merely for self-defence reasons? Supposedly very few dogs are inherently aggressive, so I despise people who train or neglect their pets so they become violent. What's all this focus on massive muscle mastiffs with huge bites? I love big, hulking dogs, but is this some disgusting American culture where 'toughest dog wins'? Like the disgraceful practice of pricking one's dog's ears up by operation. I always thought Basenjis were beautiful dogs. Apparently they don't have much smarts. My grandad down in SA has a beautiful collie and a Jack Russell. In terms of companionship the collie is a wonderful pet. Incredibly clever, too.
post #65 of 3745
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaPo View Post
I presume you're all discussing the power of a dog's 'bite' merely for self-defence reasons?

Supposedly very few dogs are inherently aggressive, so I despise people who train or neglect their pets so they become violent. What's all this focus on massive muscle mastiffs with huge bites? I love big, hulking dogs, but is this some disgusting American culture where 'toughest dog wins'? Like the disgraceful practice of pricking one's dog's ears up by operation.

I always thought Basenjis were beautiful dogs. Apparently they don't have much smarts.


My grandad down in SA has a beautiful collie and a Jack Russell. In terms of companionship the collie is a wonderful pet. Incredibly clever, too.

That's a very handsome Basenji - a breed I greatly admire. They are "smart" but are independent hunters and may not be as tractable as many of your more common breeds. As I pointed out in another post there are some Basenjis that are but a few generations away from Africa.

Your other point makes no sense, but to try and answer, I do train dogs for appropriate human aggression (as a hobby) and I can assure you that abuse does not factor into it as the dogs need to be companions first and foremost. If I wanted a dog for compound work, that is, to protect property from say 6 pm to 6 am, then I would want a dog with a lot more social aggression that would try to kill anyone who entered the space. But again, I would train for that and abuse wouldn't come into play.

Cropping and docking are controversial issues. You'll notice that the some of Boxers and the Rott I posted pics of have the tails and all have natural ears. These are dogs bred and raised in Germany where it is illegal to crop and dock. Personally, I think that the Boxer head can take natural ears, whereas the Dobe for example looks ridiculous. I'm less in love with tails on these dogs as I think it ruins the looks of the breed. To each their own.





lefty
post #66 of 3745
Quote:
Originally Posted by lefty View Post
Bandogs in CA? Lucero? Holloway? What was the mix?

lefty

Definitely not Lucero. I don't know Holloway, but I'm not particularly into the Bandog scene. The breeder was Donald Stocks/Battleground Kennels. The mix included some very intense, game-bred APBTs, a real "man eater" Tosa, a good deal of Neo and I think some OEM. Stocks was based in Aguangua, California, but I think he may have moved back to Oregon. I tried calling him the other day to see if he knew the skinny on those Bandogs' killing the guy in Rancho Mirage I mentioned earlier in the thread. I have the sense Joe Lucero is based somewhere around there, and I wondered if they could have been Lucero-bred dogs.
post #67 of 3745
Local dog news: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...ardogs25m.html

Mishka is the first Karelian bear dog to be used in wildlife enforcement in the United States. The medium-size, black-and-white Finnish hunting dog is uniquely suited to combat a growing problem in eastern King County: black bears coming into conflict with rural and suburban homeowners.

post #68 of 3745
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLibourel View Post
Definitely not Lucero. I don't know Holloway, but I'm not particularly into the Bandog scene. The breeder was Donald Stocks/Battleground Kennels. The mix included some very intense, game-bred APBTs, a real "man eater" Tosa, a good deal of Neo and I think some OEM. Stocks was based in Aguangua, California, but I think he may have moved back to Oregon. I tried calling him the other day to see if he knew the skinny on those Bandogs' killing the guy in Rancho Mirage I mentioned earlier in the thread. I have the sense Joe Lucero is based somewhere around there, and I wondered if they could have been Lucero-bred dogs.

Stocks. Forgot about him, but I don't know his dogs. Never understood the point of the EM cross considering the choices out there. Size? Colour?

Sammy Holloway was an early bandog breeder/trainer who loved the Neo. Not sure what happened to him. Somewhere there's an old video of Sammy testing a dog with a 2 ft piece of rubber hose across the head. Crazy days.

Give me some time and I'll post some videos illustrating good protection training and seriously shitty training.

lefty
post #69 of 3745
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by robin View Post

Mishka is the first Karelian bear dog to be used in wildlife enforcement in the United States. The medium-size, black-and-white Finnish hunting dog is uniquely suited to combat a growing problem in eastern King County: black bears coming into conflict with rural and suburban homeowners.

Cool dog, Robin.

lefty
post #70 of 3745
Thread Starter 
Protection work ... the good and the bad. First video is a young Malinois puppy being trained in French Ringsport. This is quite long and probably boring, but the first few minutes show a lot. The puppy is worked through the basics of each ring exercise, taught to bite on the appropriate target - in this case, the legs - and encouraged to bite deeply. The deeper that bite the harder it is for a decoy to shake the dog off and the more it hurts. The work is calm and the puppy is made to feel that he is invincible. This is a primer in proper protection training. http://www.dailymotion.com/search/sn...ronier_animals This young Presa is being worked by yahoos who don't know what the fuck they are doing. The work is hectic and creating confusion in the puppy. The dog is actually being taught to take a shallow bite and you can see him come off easily. The too thin collar is not helping. I would guess that the decoy is scared of dogs, which is kind of ridiculous as this is a puppy and you could back it down with a strong look. In one year that Malinois will knock you on your ass. The Presa may be on his way to becoming an indiscriminate biter. lefty
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post #71 of 3745
Karelian Bear Dogs, along with the very similar Russo-Finnish Laika, are among the "evil" breeds proscribed for homeowner insurance by the auto club of Southern California. I wonder how many of them there are in SoCal to pose a public safety hazard.

That list is very weird! Along with the usual suspects, the Bernese Mountain Dog is listed among the "bad dogs." Those I've known have been very benign, and I think that's their general public reputation. Back when I was a young 'un, 60 years ago, some lines had a reputation for being shy-sharp though. I wonder if this is a legacy of that.
post #72 of 3745
Thread Starter 
You remember seeing a Bernese 60 years ago? That must have been a rare dog back then.

For those who know, the Standard Poodle is one hell of a dog.



But you don't see that many doing bitework:





lefty
post #73 of 3745
Thread Starter 
Some exceptional ring decoy and dog work here:





lefty
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post #74 of 3745
I may have seen some Bernese Mountain Dogs at dog shows. I started going to those events back around 1949-1950. A lot of them were still bench shows in those days, which made things a lot more interesting for a youngster who was fascinated by dogs. Mostly, though, I recall reading about their tendency to shy-sharpness in dog books of that period, although they didn't use that term.

Standard Poodles can be very tough customers. I know the USAF has used them for security purposes. Standards doing protection work sort of look like killer clowns with their topknots and fluffy ears. I can recall seeing one Standard that had a trim that made him look like a Black Russian Terrier. I kind of liked that look--in fact, I first thought the dog was a smallish BRT.

One dogwise former friend of mine remarked of Standard Poodles, "They're so tough they're like a badger. You agitate them and they come at you relentlessly."

My wife had two Standard bitches when we first met. A few months before our wedding they had a Homeric battle, and the losing bitch was so badly torn up Sally had her put down. She was somewhat owner-aggressive to Sally and her son, who was still a little boy then. Oddly, she was very sweet to me. I have heard of several other cases of owner-aggression with Standards.

The victorious Poodle was very tough. She survived a very savage mauling by my Tosa, Jessie. The Poodle had been very cruel to Jessie when she was younger, and Jessie decided it was payback time as she grew up. When the Poodle died at age 10 1/2, even after rigor mortis had set in, I halfway expected her to rise up again, as she had after the Tosa mauling, when my wife had given her up for dead. If my wife had had the guts to use a breaking stick, the Poodle would have suffered far less damage.

My wife sometimes thinks, if and when we get another dog, that she would like another Standard. Although I favor the molossers, I wouldn't be averse to this were it not for the fact my wife's parents had some terrible health problems with their last Standard, Addison's Disease and more. I was with my father-in-law when we had her put down for a full-torsion bloat Christmas morning 2006. It kind of put a pall on that Christmas. My father-in-law was a tough one. He joked, "Last Christmas, my wife [who had died in December '05], this Christmas my dog, next Christmas..." and pointed to himself. He was pretty close to the mark. He had a bad heart attack in October '07 and died February '08.
post #75 of 3745
Thread Starter 
Get a Standard and let his coat cord up. That'll turn some heads.



Or go for an traditional Lion cut:



It's tough to lose a dog to bloat. By the time you figure it out it's usually too late.

lefty
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