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lefty's random dog thread. - Page 216

post #3226 of 3745
Teger, I commend you for going to the rescue to get another dog.

Although I understand buying puppies for an outrageous amount of money for people who truly love a breed, most of the people I know ( I live in LA ) are idiots and perpetuate dog milling with their antics.
post #3227 of 3745
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcg View Post

^Think about whether you want her to have to spend 15 minutes around every person you come across before she opens up. Shyness is extremely difficult to deal with.
It's also possible that she'll be incredibly sweet with you, but never warm up to some people.

Another issue I have encountered with shy dogs is their aggressiveness when pushed too far when they are unsure/uncomfortable. Many peoplpe don't understand that the dog is wary b/c in its life, humans suck and cause nothing but pain. They think that they are different and that the dog knows this. I have seen a few good bites as a result of someone pushing their limits where the dog was giving clear signs it did not want to be messed with. Perhaps the person had it coming, but that doesn't address the fallout from the bite.

Just something to think about.
post #3228 of 3745
I don't know if "shy" is the right word -- perhaps "aloof" or "pensive" is better. She doesn't seem frightened, just a little cautious, and more interested in sniffing and peeing then playing with people at first. Going to see them again next weekend outside of their home and see how they react to a new environment.
post #3229 of 3745
Quote:
Originally Posted by zarathustra View Post

Another issue I have encountered with shy dogs is their aggressiveness when pushed too far when they are unsure/uncomfortable. Many people don't understand that the dog is wary b/c in its life, humans suck and cause nothing but pain. They think that they are different and that the dog knows this. I have seen a few good bites as a result of someone pushing their limits where the dog was giving clear signs it did not want to be messed with. Perhaps the person had it coming, but that doesn't address the fallout from the bite.
Just something to think about.

I almost entirely agree with this, but would add that some dogs are just shy because they're shy, not because they've had terrible experiences with people. You'll hear many people say "it's not the dog; it's how it's raised!" Well, I don't have much experience raising dogs, but I suspect those who do will back me up on this - that statement is simply not correct. I've had my dog since she was ~4 months old. If you have initial concerns about a dog's behavior, and believe that all you need to do is give it a good home and everything will work itself out, you are setting yourself up for potential disappointment. I say "potential" because some behavior challenges are easier to solve than others, but be aware that shyness falls on the "very difficult" end of the spectrum.

Also worth noting that shyness is different than friendliness. My dog is friendly as hell. We'll be on a walk, and she'll see someone approaching, and be wiggling all over with happiness...and then they get close, and she tucks her tail and backs away. It's as if she wants very badly to interact with the person, but something inside her prevents her from doing so. Sometimes she'll bark if they try to approach. I can understand how this would be confusing to people, since just seconds earlier her body language seemed to indicate that they were about to be her new best friend. (This pattern doesn't happen with everyone, but it happens a substantial portion of the time.)
post #3230 of 3745

My dog Albert 2 year old German Pinscher, very similar temper as a doberman, but apartment sized at 45 lbs.

IMG_0275.jpg

And at 3 months

700

post #3231 of 3745
Quote:
Originally Posted by smashwindow View Post

My dog Albert 2 year old German Pinscher, very similar temper as a doberman, but apartment sized at 45 lbs.

And at 3 months

May I ask what their temperant is?
post #3232 of 3745
Thread Starter 

^^^ I've said this before, but you could take a genetically stable dog and beat it to an inch of its life and it will come back just fine. On the other hand a dog that has been bred with weak nerves will never be a "normal" no matter how much loving and care you give it.  

 

dcg's dog is a good example of this. Despite all his care and work, she is still unstable in many situations.

 

lefty

post #3233 of 3745

Intelligent, somewhat stubborn, frequently tries to be the boss, will bare his teeth when he is happy sometimes (canine smile) wary of strangers, very affectionate with people he knows, likes to stare out the window and guard, high energy requires about an hour of exercise per day, loves to play ball and hunt small animals.  He is not a family dog, very much a single owner dog, if I'm in a large group of people he will stay by me.  Does not like kids under 10.

'

post #3234 of 3745
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcg View Post

I almost entirely agree with this, but would add that some dogs are just shy because they're shy, not because they've had terrible experiences with people. You'll hear many people say "it's not the dog; it's how it's raised!" Well, I don't have much experience raising dogs, but I suspect those who do will back me up on this - that statement is simply not correct.

+1

No mystery here - temperament is largely a product of breeding.

In the purebred world, most (possibly all - not sure) breed standards specify a particular temperament that is correct for a breed. Many standards, in fact, go out of their way to specify that shyness is a fault. I very much doubt that a reputable breeder would breed a shy dog.

Here's an example:

Temperament
Gentle, affectionate, friendly, without shyness, fear or viciousness.

Here's another:

Temperament
The breed has a distinct personality marked by direct and fearless, but not hostile, expression, self-confidence and a certain aloofness that does not lend itself to immediate and indiscriminate friendships . . . . Lack of confidence under any surroundings is not typical of good character. Any of the above deficiencies in character which indicate shyness must be penalized as very serious faults and any dog exhibiting pronounced indications of these must be excused from the ring.
post #3235 of 3745

Also pinschers are aloof aswell, frequently strangers will come to pet him and he won't cower or be afraid, he just doesn't care and isn't interested, or will be focused on the ball, frisbee or just keeping watch.

post #3236 of 3745
Anent dcg's dog, we don't know her bloodlines, but a lot of fighting-line pit bulls display a lot of genetic shyness (as can Tosas). As long as the dogs have gameness and ability and are not human-aggressive, the dogmen don't care about shyness. After the Michael Vick business, many of the pit bulls "rescued" from his kennel displayed a lot of shyness. It was often claimed that they had been so traumatized that they were irremediably shy. I suspect those dogs would have been just as shy if Michael Vick and his hirelings had been the kindliest men in the world.

One friend of mine with a lot of experience in the pit-dog game before he found Jesus told me that sometimes dogs that would cower in the back of their kennels if an unfamiliar human came around would shoot out to attack another dog.

Let us remember that shyness is the natural temperament of the dog, which is why primitive dogs are generally very shy. A "hail fellow, well met" temperament that most pet owners want is really unnatural and the product of selective breeding.
Edited by JLibourel - 12/10/12 at 11:54am
post #3237 of 3745
Thread Starter 

And it's a very difficult trait to hang on to. Most people make all kinds of excuses for shy dogs.

 

lefty

post #3238 of 3745
Quote:
Originally Posted by lefty View Post

^^^ I've said this before, but you could take a genetically stable dog and beat it to an inch of its life and it will come back just fine. On the other hand a dog that has been bred with weak nerves will never be a "normal" no matter how much loving and care you give it.  

dcg's dog is a good example of this. Despite all his care and work, she is still unstable in many situations.

lefty

Are you also referring to a dog that has been routiniely physically abused by humans over a period of time as well? Just curious in the toll this sort of behavior could take on a dog.
post #3239 of 3745

Sometimes these things are hard to determine, and breed out.  My breeder says that out of every litter she might have 1 dog that has anxiety issues, she gave my mom one such dog for free, and he has gotten better through training and medication, but he is far from "cured"

post #3240 of 3745
Thread Starter 

Within reason of course, but there are many examples of dogs that have been physically abused, starved or abandoned that bounce back once they receive some genuine care and attention. 

 

On the hand, there are plenty of dogs that have received nothing but love and care yet will piss themselves at a raised voice or hand.

 

lefty

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