lefty's random dog thread. - Page 16

But then he had to throw in the bullshit about one or two dogs having patches of the wrong colour of fur under their asses. I respect breeding for temperament and performance in the field. I don't respect breeding for stupid shit that's only relevant in the very fucked-up world of dog showing.

For the record my two most recent dogs were purebred Belgian Malinois. Both died early - one of leukemia at six, the other of a seizure at 10 months.

You mean like killing a Rhodesian Ridgeback for lacking a ridge? Culling doesn't require you to kill the puppy, hold on to the dog and neuter/spay the thing so it can't be bred then sell it as a pet.

If your dog dies from a fucking boar in the process of trying to hunt test it, well that's your loss, period. I realize that people actually do still use dogs for their intended purposes, but a vast majority DO NOT. Meaning that dog that "didn't get cut" may make a fine pet and there may be absolutely nothing wrong with it, but in his SPECIFIC line of WORKING Dogos he has a higher bar which makes it more difficult for him as a breeder.

There are a number of reasons certain breeds are "screwed up". Some of the genetic diseases it may suffer from don't show up until later in life often after it has already been bred.

There's no intelligence requirement, certification or manual one has to read to become a dog breeder. A lot of really stupid people breed dogs of all types and they don't care or don't know enough to do it right.

Are you saying the colour of a dog's coat might affect it's ability to accomplish some working task?

They breed color out of dogs to make them easier to see in the field and so you don't accidentally shoot them.

Oh, didn't realize blind people and Dick Cheney did that much hunting. Christ, how blind do you have to be to not see your own dog because its ass is black?

Hey I'm not saying I agree with it lol, but pretty much every sporting dog/hound/terrier that is predominately white is so because some European royalty accidentally shot his favorite dog at one point and then demanded his servants that bred his dogs to "Only keep the white ones!"

This whole topic makes me want to pull a Budd Dwyer.

I read the article and understood he did neuter several and sell them as pets, I was more responding to what you said about Dobermans. I'm also aware they kill the boar with a knife and not a gun. 'Someone asked why Dobermans were so screwed up. The answer is that very few breeders will kill a puppy for a fault when that same puppy can command thousands of dollars." Look at a lot of the "issues" Dobermans suffer from, I'm sure you are familiar with them. A lot of them are not testable and don't present themselves until after maturity is reached. Hell most people don't even sell their dogs on spay/neuter contracts and owners rarely even take them to the vet. How is a RR without a ridge any different from a "black patch on the ass of a Dogo" as one other poster put it? They are both minor aesthetics that don't really have anything to with the performance of the dog. I guess if you get confused in hand-to-hand dog/boar/human knife fight and bury your knife in the ass of your dog, well fuck, that sucks. They are in the "breed standard" so anything less is unacceptable. Breeders selected for the ridge because anecdotal evidence suggested those dogs made better hunters. I've met a lot of happy, healthy RR and their owners, none of them hunt lions. How is it that "breeding for pets" got us into this mess? I think you mean idiot breeders bending to the whim of public demand to produce quantity, not selecting for traits which may make wonderful companions in this modern age. I have nothing against a breeder trying to preserve a set of traits which match the original purpose of the breed, but at the same time that breeder and future dog owner has to recognize the added difficulty in doing so BEFORE going into the whole thing. EDIT: Breeding dogs is not a money making venture if you're doing it right. It has to be a serious hobby that is both very money and time intensive. The best breeders I've met do it out of a love for the dog, nothing more.

lefty, I know you have a lot of admiration for the Dogos in Argentina, but I have long had the impression that most of the American stock is even more physically unsound and generally screwed up than most of the rare-breed molossers...and, as you well know, that's saying a lot! Have any number of them been used for catch-dog work or similar tasks in this country? I have been told that when Dogos have matched against Tosas in Japan, they have acquitted themselves better than similar breeds, e.g., Presa Canario, American Bulldog, those big Pakistani fighting dogs (I forget the name--"Bully Cutha" or something?), etc.

The breeder's comments you cited just reinforce my conviction overall of how damn unhealthy dogs in general are these days. I really wonder if I want another one.

Given that most puppies are sold at 7-10 weeks of age, how much can anyone really tell about soundness and temperament? I am aware of various "puppy temperament tests," but these were mostly developed for Labs or GSDs and usually don't tell you much about potential working ability. Obviously, if a puppy is especially bold or timid, you may be able to draw some conclusions...but beyond that? I'm thinking of the breeder's comments about the one young Dogo who seemed to be holding back just a bit with the hogs. Are you going to be able to descry traits like that at eight weeks?

The Dogo man is obviously a very conscientious breeder, but frankly, a lot of people in the dog breeding game are unethical greed-heads. I think this is particularly true in the rare-breed orbit, where people often charge ridiculous prices (and frequently have leftover youngsters they couldn't move at the preposterous prices asked). I know this was certainly true in Tosa world. I have said of least one Tosa breeder and I could probably say it of a number of others that if Satan came up from hell and started breeding Tosas, I would rather do business with him: He'd be much more intelligent and interesting to talk to, and his business ethics couldn't possibly be any worse!

THIS!

I didn't want to stereotype or group a set of dogs that already have their own public image issues, but so many breeders of the rare fighting/protection/guard dogs are extremely unethical and out to make a buck.

Don't get me wrong the same can be said of Chihuahua breeders or (not sure about the rest of the country) Bernese Mountain Dog breeders up here in the PNW, the things are EVERYWHERE. Anytime a dog becomes popular people come out of the woodwork and start breeding the crap out of them regardless of health, temperament etc.

JL, I'm not sure about the health thing. I mean it's completely anecdotal I realize and I haven't taken a look at statistics but it seems for every dog owner I talk to that has lost pets below the 10 year mark there's one that has had a dog that lived 10-14 years.

There are a lot of "bigger" breeds that I like, but I refuse to consider as I don't want to be a "lucky one" that has their companion live past the age of 7.