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lefty's random dog thread. - Page 15

post #211 of 3684
I bought top-dollar, super-premium foods. My dogs still got cancer and died young.
post #212 of 3684
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLibourel View Post
I bought top-dollar, super-premium foods. My dogs still got cancer and died young.
Oddly enough, the dog's that I see die the earliest are always the ones who eat strictly super premium Whole Foods' esque diets. The ones that get fed shitty food and scraps always seem to stick around the longest. Quick question on training: My neighbor had two beautiful female Rotts die this year of cancer and he's just replaced them with another female Rott puppy from NY. I asked him why all the bitches and he's under the impression that the females are much easier to break and train. Any ideas why?
post #213 of 3684
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLibourel View Post
I bought top-dollar, super-premium foods. My dogs still got cancer and died young.

I know you dog guys dont seem to think cross breeds and mutts have healthier constitutions but my border collie husky cross lived to be almost 16 and only in the last couple years did he show his age.

Number of times I took him to a vet in his 15 plus years = once, and that was an optional visit for a rabies shot I figured he might need because he kept mixing it up with the local wildlife.
post #214 of 3684
I grew up with cats and always wanted a dog. In fact, I've always wanted a husky. Well, my dreams came closer to reality when I found out that my girlfriend's aunt and uncle used to race sled dogs and they have a kennel full of 18 huskies. All of their dogs are too old for serious racing (most are 10 years old or more), but that doesn't mean they don't love to run all over the 2 acres or so of fenced in area in the backyard.

Here's their home. There are 6 different kennels, 3 dogs to a kennel. As you can see in the pic, they have some fenced-in area outside...



...and inside. Notice the big fans for when it gets too hot in the summer (they live in Minnesota).



Here's one of the dogs in his kennel. I can't get enough of those eyes.



Same dog, only outside.



Feeding frenzy



When I was talking to the owners they said they only have huskies, but this one didn't look like your typical husky to me and I forgot to ask them about him. Does anyone know what kind of husky (if it is, indeed, a husky) this is?



Alaskan husky on the right and Siberian husky (I think...) on the left. I've always preferred the look of the Siberian husky, but the Alaskan husky really grew on me.



Shedding some of that winter coat. It was fun to pull the excess fur off of the dogs.



Another Alaskan husky



I never imagined myself saying this, but I can't wait to go back to Minnesota.
post #215 of 3684
Aww... Cute little fuckers those Huskies. Shedding makes them a definite no-no at casa de Rambo.
post #216 of 3684
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by justinpba View Post
Any body have experience with dogs and babies? Our 5 year old American Bulldog has always been great with our 7 month old daughter. He's super mellow and the only times I've ever seen him get aggressive was protecting our Boston Terrier (who can be a bit of a jerk and is the reason we don't go to the dog park any more) from bigger dogs who didn't want to play at the park. Our daughter just started crawling, and suddenly the bull doesn't care for her, and has even barked at her once (he's now on probation for this and we are monitoring his behavior super close). I've heard this is common once babies start crawling, that dogs can get weirded out by it. Anybody have experience? Is it just a phase? I really don't want to get rid of my dog.

The dog is reacting to the movement. (Best way to raise a dog's interest is to move in an unusual manner.) SUPERVISE them together and let him get used to the way she crawls. Never leave them alone together under any circumstances. I would also consider a training collar and tab if not a lead on the dog at all times so you can control him in a moment's notice. Don't overreact to the situation or you can make it much worse, but watch carefully.

Quote:
Originally Posted by videocrew View Post
I make a point to buy dog food and treats from North America at least. I don't have the time and money to give her a raw diet or whatever, but there are plenty of high quality dog foods from America and Canada that are well worth any additional cost.

Good food is better in many ways, but I've seen healthy working dogs on Old Roy and unhealthy dogs on Abady. Diet can only affect a very small part of what can go wrong with a dog's health.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambo View Post

Quick question on training: My neighbor had two beautiful female Rotts die this year of cancer and he's just replaced them with another female Rott puppy from NY. I asked him why all the bitches and he's under the impression that the females are much easier to break and train. Any ideas why?

There are a lot myths about this. In general, bitches are smaller and less inclined to light up around other dogs, but old time dog guys would say that the best home protector is a spayed bitch. I've seen as many soft dogs as I've seen hard bitches. Other than size, I don't think there's much of a difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redcaimen View Post
I know you dog guys dont seem to think cross breeds and mutts have healthier constitutions but my border collie husky cross lived to be almost 16 and only in the last couple years did he show his age.

Number of times I took him to a vet in his 15 plus years = once, and that was an optional visit for a rabies shot I figured he might need because he kept mixing it up with the local wildlife.

World record for longevity is an Australian Cattle Dog - 29 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsgNYC View Post

Another Alaskan husky



I never imagined myself saying this, but I can't wait to go back to Minnesota.

Nice dogs. The Alaskan Husky is not a breed but more of a working designation - bulldog verses Bulldog. They are the go to choice for racing.

lefty
post #217 of 3684
Quote:
Originally Posted by lefty View Post


World record for longevity is an Australian Cattle Dog - 29 years.





Yeah, I know. I was actually looking for a cattle dog when I ran into Hoagie at the pound and decided he was coming with me. I bought that book on cattle dogs/queensland heelers/blueys or whatever they are called and they have quite an interesting genetic background. Dingo/dalmation/bull terrier/and various herding dogs from the british isles. At least this is what I recall from the book. While they are a breed they are a relatively new breed and they seem to have quite a broad genetic heritage.

I know you have a great deal more knowledge and experience with dogs than I do but in my limited experience mutts just dont fall apart like purebreds.

It sucks to see a golden painfully dragging its back legs at 5 years of age. I know of two cases where a doberman has just keeled over dead for no apparent reason. Whats up with dobermanns?
post #218 of 3684
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by redcaimen View Post
I know you have a great deal more knowledge and experience with dogs than I do but in my limited experience mutts just dont fall apart like purebreds.

It sucks to see a golden painfully dragging its back legs at 5 years of age. I know of two cases where a doberman has just keeled over dead for no apparent reason. Whats up with dobermanns?

Overbreeding of poor specimens.

I will agree with you to the extent that the popularity of single stud dog from a narrow gene pool will create a raft of problems for any breed. Add in the desire for conformational deformities and it's a miracle that any purebred makes it past the two year mark. But taking an unhealthy dog from Breed A and crossing it to unhealthy dog from Breed B does not magically create a healthy mutt.

The problem is that we aren't willing to do what's necessary to improve or even maintain healthy lines of dogs: test and cull hard.

lefty
post #219 of 3684
Quote:
Originally Posted by lefty View Post
The problem is that we aren't willing to do what's necessary to improve or even maintain healthy lines of dogs: test and cull hard.
Has this ever been done?
post #220 of 3684
Dont know its recent history here in the US but the cattle dog was ruthlessly culled in australia and in short order they came up with a pretty amazing dog.

Im told the US dogs lack the fire of their australian cousins. The ones I have seen have been fearless little power packs. God knows what they are like in Queensland. They are very popular dogs out here in ranch country. The heat doesnt bother them at all.

As I say cattle dogs greatly appeal to me but there will be no more dogs for me because the last one fucking broke my heart.
post #221 of 3684
Quote:
Originally Posted by robin View Post
Has this ever been done?


Hell yes! Pit dog men have always done this: "Breed the best, bury the rest." Although (almost) everybody hates them, they sure produced some wonderful dogs.

To a slightly lesser degree, anybody concerned with producing good working dogs, be they hunting dogs, herding dogs, police/security dogs has to do this. I've heard it said, "To be a good breeder, you have to be a ruthless culler."

Whenever I see breeds with a fighting heritage--the breeds I like best: Tosas, APBTs, AmStaffs, Staff Bulls--prancing around a show ring as some old biddy judge "assesses movement," I just think to myself, "This is perversion. These are supposed to be fighting dogs. Let them fight each other. We'd soon find out who's really best that way."
post #222 of 3684
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by robin View Post
Has this ever been done?

Yes. Lot's of breeds/lines: pits/hunting dogs/sled dogs. If you're a working man and depend upon your dogs for your livelihood chances are you're not going to feed dogs that can't cut it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redcaimen View Post
Dont know its recent history here in the US but the cattle dog was ruthlessly culled in australia and in short order they came up with a pretty amazing dog.

Im told the US dogs lack the fire of their australian cousins. The ones I have seen have been fearless little power packs. God knows what they are like in Queensland. They are very popular dogs out here in ranch country. The heat doesnt bother them at all.

As I say cattle dogs greatly appeal to me but there will be no more dogs for me because the last one fucking broke my heart.

Great breed of dog. I regret I'll never have time to own one.

To lighten up a little, the talk of Dobermanns reminded me of this:





First of three Doberman Gang movies.

lefty
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post #223 of 3684
I liked the Doberman in the movie A Fish Called Wanda. Classic scene.
post #224 of 3684
Thread Starter 
Here is an article by a well-known Dogo Argentino dogman on the challenges to breed and maintain a good working line:

Do you want to breed? Read this first, if you can stand my 1.600 words, then you are off to a good start...:-).

Dogo breeders are most often subject of all kinds of insults, despise, demands of perfection; they frequently have their dog prices judged by non-breeders or all kinds of Internet inhabitants, and are basically sometimes seen -at least, portrayed as- little less than greedy scumbags who want to make money out of peddling "inferior quality" dogs towards innocent buyers. They are expected to breed perfectly healthy, true-to-type dogs of sound structure, balanced temperament, fearless hunting instincts, etc, etc, CONSISTENTLY, at, let's say, less than U$S 800. "No dog is worth more than xyz", you read (like if dogs were a commodity). "Nobody should be expected to pay for a dog more than xxx". "The dog wasn't exactly what I expected". "Breeders should take a dog back whenever is needed; it doesn't matter if the owner was a jackass who had it for 6 years chained to a tree and turned it into a wreck or didn't do anything with it. The breeder should take it back", you read.

Well, I am not a full-scale breeder, but as a person who has bred a few dogos for quite a few years by now as a personal hobby to complement the pleasure I get from hunting with them and making friends, I want to make a solitary point in favor of the always-vilipended breeders, that scum of the earth. Which I know won't make me popular, but since I know where I am standing already, I guess it makes no difference. And when I say breeders, I am talking in general terms, not referring to anyone in particular; just making a generic point. The obvious distinction between good breeders and bad breeders is left out because it is too broad, non-specific, and subjective (what is good for some, may not be for others). I would prefer to assume the honest vs. non-honest dichotomy, and for obvious reasons, talk about the honest one.

Let's say an honest breeder, which we will call Alpha, has a mating in mind. He has a great b###h, named X, and a great male, named Y. Some people, probably non-breeders, would think of it as a perfect start. However, it's a matter of perspective. Depending on where you look at it from, it can be an ending, and not a start. Good or bad, time will tell.

Let's go 3 years back. The same breeder had 2 b###hes and 2 males; this time, the would-be parents of the ones mentioned above. Let's call one of the couples, for the sake of simplicity, female V and male W. In order to avoid making this a crossword-puzzle, we will talk about this couple only, and leave the other one alone, assuming a similar story.

Both female V and Male W come from a good lineage with good records; are 3 years old, and the breeder is planning to mate them. Let's see the story of both.

Both V and W have been raised, fed with the best possible food, vaccined, dewormed, several times ($$$).
Both V and W have been BAER tested and scored fine ($$$)
Both V and W have had their hips x-rayed and scored fine ($$$)
Corioretinitis have been ruled out (more $$$). Structure is sound, well within the standards. Mouths are both complete; bite a scissors. Type is solid, rusticity is ok. Temperament is sound and dual, courage has been tested ($$$; whether more or less, is dependent on location, facility to find places to test or hunt, boars to use, willingness to stretch the limits, etc). Gas has been spent, tires have been punctured in solitary dirt roads, time has been used, wounds have been stitched.

By the way, female V comes from a litter of initially very promising pups; parents impeccable. 8 pups were born including her; lets call this litter, litter A.

In this litter A: Pup 1 ended-up bilaterally deaf and proven as such, so he was PTS and buried at 2 months of age, after being fed, vaccined, dewormed, and BAER tested ($$$).

Pup 2 was a unilat, so he was neutered and given away for free to a hunter after...after doing all that was done with pup 1, except the part of PTS and bury (more $$$).

Pup 3 had a big black patch on the birth of his tail, so he was given the same treatment as pup 2 (more $$$).

Pup 4 developed as undershot, so again, same as brothers 2 and 3.

Pups 5, 6, 7 and 8 were structurally ok, so then taken to "boot camp", to be temperamentally and functionally tested severely to know if they had what was necessary. A 1-week trip, 2000 kms, driving in an out, taking time from work ($$$) and family, and doing some field-tests and hunts. Since no 1-week test is enough, finding the help of a full-time, trustworthy hunter to leave the pups with, horses, food for the pups for 2 months, the whole bananas ($$$$). Driving back to boot camp at least once a month (time permitting; Alpha also has work and sons to look after) to hunt with the pups and see how they are developing (more $$$).

Turns out pups 5 and 6 don't cut the mustard, but for different reasons. Pup 5 is ok, a good fighter, but gets killed by a boar. Shit ($$$).

Pups 6 seems ok, but he is never the first to reach the catch, and he never seems to get hurt or cut. Bastard seems to lack some heart or fire, according to the hunter. Or maybe he gets disoriented No way to know for sure yet; maybe he can change; maybe he is a late developer. Got to keep it there and keep trying; he is worth it (more $$$).

Pups 7 and 8 seem to be the real deal. So, pup 7 is sold offshore in U$S 1.200. Pup 8 is kept by the breeder, and is later going to be...Female V.

So, working hard, diligently and being honest, breeder Alpha keeps one pup for him / herself, and sells one. All in all, loses a reasonably bunch of money and time, but hell, he / she likes this. It will get better. It has to.

Male W comes from a similarly promising 8-litter pup; litter B. This time the results are better; after culling and discarding, the breeder gets 4 "clean", a-priori breeding-quality pups (50%). Three are sold offshore in U$S 1200 each; the remaining one is...Male W. However, after 2 years pass, one of the pups sold abroad develops Wobbler's syndrome, a congenital spondilopathy which affects cervical vertebrae in long-necked dogs and cripples them, normally after the 1st year of age. Common in Dobermanns, not common in Dogos, but heck, shit happens, doesn't it? Breeder Alpha feels the obligation to return the money; customer is rightfully upset. Balance of litter B: 3 pups sold, 1 of them reimbursed (net balance, 2 sold), 1 pup kept: Male W.

Male W and female V are mated. Eight beautiful pups are born, after a similar process as the one related before ($$$$), breeder Alpha gets...Female X!

Out of a similar couple and process ($$$$), breeder Alpha gets...Male Y!

So here we are, back were we started. Three years later, breeder Alpha is ready to mate Female X with Male Y. Like we have mentioned, structurally and temperamentally correct dogs. Some lack of consistency on the line, it might seem...but nothing strange to any dogo line that is being bred anywhere else in the world, since the breed is young, the gene pool limited, and most lines are intertwined someplace of the other. Right? Whatever breeder Beta or Gamma might say, that's the truth of the breed, and everybody knows it. Right?

Ok, so then, back to Female X and Male Y....

Female X needs:
Deworming prior to heat ($$$)
Sonogram prior to heat, to evaluate uterus and rule out chronic endometrytis (one of the main causes for female dog infertility, $$$$)
Vaginal culture ($$$). Shit, she has a staph: Cephalexin, 10 days ($$$)
Progesterone dosage (to adequately estimate ovulation, $$$$)
Exfoliative vaginal cytology (same reason, $$$)

Male Y needs:
Brucella test ($$$)
Spermogram ($$$)
Sperm culture to rule out prosthatitis ($$$)

Both need:
A whelping box ($$$)
A cage for over 3-week old pups. Last one was wrecked by the pups; those bastards, so Alpha needs a new one ($$$)
Food ($$$)
More deworming ($$$)

The mating is successful!! Eight beautiful pups are born!! Alpha is all happy and ready to lose his or her sleep in a couple weeks, when the suckers stop sucking, or the mother decides she has had enough of the little rascals.

But hey, we have 8 great puppies, so who cares? Maybe Alpha has done things well, and 4 or 5 of the pups (at least) can fly, can't they? Shit, that one with the gray speckle on the neck....that speckle seems to be growing! It will surely be one great big black patch in a few weeks....

Anyway, breeder Alpha needs to go to the vet urgently. It seems one of his / her promising juvenile studs has just developed a bloat. Off he / she goes to get diagnostic and treatment ($$$$).

Breeding right and trying to be decent. What a rush; what a goldmine. Hop up, boys and girls, and be my guest.

Marcelo

PS: The events referred are fictional, but I am sure many breeders reading them will feel identified with at least some of the situations described. And remember the frustration they felt back then.
And for those who have never bred and think it is an over-exaggeration...again, be my guest.




lefty
post #225 of 3684
That guy's 1,600 word diatribe could be summed up with "Breeding purebred dogs for purpose, type, and temperment is expensive. Breeders almost never recoup cost of breeding in price." This has been the case for a long time, it's not some revelation. If you're a potential dog owner looking for a purebred dog, in this case a RARE breed of dog that has been hunt tested etc etc expect to pay handsomely.
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