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Literature you wanted/were supposed to like, but just couldn't - Page 17

post #241 of 249
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Originally Posted by Teacher View Post
Stop! You're giving me Merchant/Ivory flashbacks!
Come back with me, sir, to Howard's End!!! (I would have added Forster to my list except that I have to give him a pass for that terrible Maurice.)
post #242 of 249
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Originally Posted by johnapril View Post
No. Ulysses is 783 pages, whereas Gifford is 643, Gilbert 390.

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Originally Posted by johnapril View Post
Gifford and Gilbert are the standard texts. Maybe you guys had to use both. I had to use both during my third reading of Ulysses. After that, the fourth and fifth readings went more smoothly.

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Originally Posted by johnapril View Post
It might help to read a biography about the writer before getting all 2009 on his work. Richard Ellmann wrote a good one.

Whoa. Ulysses is 783 pages, and you read that five times, plus two guides on the book, in order to understand it all.

On one hand I respect this. On the other hand...I would have picked up a different book.

(...I say this as I launch once more into Dostoevsky...)
post #243 of 249
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Originally Posted by Thomas View Post
Whoa. Ulysses is 783 pages, and you read that five times, plus two guides on the book, in order to understand it all.

On one hand I respect this. On the other hand...I would have picked up a different book.

(...I say this as I launch once more into Dostoevsky...)

I started with The Brothers Karamazov, which I had to read twice. All this time I was reading to study the writing methods.
post #244 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnapril View Post
It might help to read a biography about the writer before getting all 2009 on his work. Richard Ellmann wrote a good one.

I appreciate this, but you shouldn't have to read a biography of an author to understand his work.

I've read a lot of Dostoevsky and Tolstoy and didn't feel that I needed anything other than what was in the book to understand the work.
post #245 of 249
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Originally Posted by odoreater View Post
Somebody should just translate that fucking thing into regular english. If you have to read other shit to accompany a book so that you understand it, then, IMO, it's not really that good.

I greatly enjoy annotated texts, as they impart not only criticism on the subject but also a good deal of historical, biographical, and sociological background that can be tremendously helpful. Just try understanding Shakespeare without notes about the language (many scenes, such as Desdemona's muder scene, cannot be fully understood without understanding the thou/you system of address)...it's impossible. But I admit it certainly isn't for everyone.
post #246 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher View Post
I greatly enjoy annotated texts, as they impart not only criticism on the subject but also a good deal of historical, biographical, and sociological background that can be tremendously helpful. But I admit it certainly isn't for everyone.

You're right that in that regard, it's different strokes for different folks. My philosophy of reading was always that I would read to see what I would get out of the text. I wouldn't even read any introduction or forward to a book because I felt that it wasn't the way an author meant for a book to be read (because if it was, he would have written it).

Of course, I've known people who would highlight passages, go look things up that they didn't understand, and maybe they got something different out of the book that I didn't get, but so it goes.
post #247 of 249
Cervantes Don Quijote
post #248 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by odoreater View Post
My philosophy of reading was always that I would read to see what I would get out of the text. I wouldn't even read any introduction or forward to a book because I felt that it wasn't the way an author meant for a book to be read (because if it was, he would have written it).
That's how I approach most literature, but the 20th century modernists forced me to do otherwise. I couldn't deny the brilliance of Faulkner, for example, but how to begin to understand The Sound and the Fury? Regarding Joyce, specifically, I suggested the Ellmann because your attitude toward Ulysses suggested a certain annoyance that I, too, felt when I first approached that novel. Reading more about his life and his artistic choices helped me to stretch beyond my previous expectations. Joyce certainly wrote that book and the next novel with the intent that they would be studied and decoded, not merely read. My relationship with literature has always involved challenging and stretching myself to go outside of my comfort/knowledge zone. So, that's my frame of reference when suggesting other reading. I certainly don't mean to impose, only to be helpful as well as I know how.
post #249 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by odoreater View Post
I appreciate this, but you shouldn't have to read a biography of an author to understand his work.

I've read a lot of Dostoevsky and Tolstoy and didn't feel that I needed anything other than what was in the book to understand the work.

I haven't read anything about Dostoevsky or Tolstoy either, though I've read all their work. But those two stuck within a fairly standard literary framework, whereas Joyce was one who "broke the frame," along with William Faulkner, Ezra Pound, and Virginia Woolf.
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