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Children and restaurants - Page 6

post #76 of 88
3/3/09 at 12:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post
What?
Ironic because you're complaining that babies cramp your own lifestyle. Babies are and will be part of your surroundings all your life. I don't think you need to tell anyone that they need to change their lifestyle when they have kids - the reality of things is good enough for them. Again, stop trotting your Aruba/Caribbean story to make your point - when was the last time you flew to Aruba? You're using this as a strawman. Sometimes, families have to go places, sometimes they want their children to experience new things. So either they leave the kids locked behind at home and leave pellets of food on the floor for them for the week, or they take them with them. Families tend to travel together, even though it makes your flying experience slightly less enjoyable at times. I honestly didn't think you of all people would express such inane opinion. Do you think people take their children on planes because they enjoy to hear them cry or something?
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post #77 of 88
3/3/09 at 12:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post
My flight strategy in a nutshell:

1) Order 6 beers
2) Drink
3) Read a book
4) Itch for a fucking smoke and feel like the world is hell.
5) Go to the bathroom 10 times because I'm so tempted to barricade myself and light one there
6) Land, get my stuff ASAP and run for the door
7) aaaaaaahhhhh

Do I smoke the fucking cigarette on a plane, no. I just bear it.

Minus the need to smoke, that is how I feel about flying. I plan to try Xanax some day soon.
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post #78 of 88
3/3/09 at 12:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post
Minus the need to smoke, that is how I feel about flying. I plan to try Xanax some day soon.

+1, a couple of friends are raving about it. Not sure I'd trust them though, I don't want to be that wasted, I just want a slight buzz to kill the edge. I thankfully don't have any fear of flying in itself, I can't even believe to imagine what it is for those people.
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post #79 of 88
3/3/09 at 12:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post
+1, a couple of friends are raving about it. Not sure I'd trust them though, I don't want to be that wasted, I just want a slight buzz to kill the edge. I thankfully don't have any fear of flying in itself, I can't even believe to imagine what it is for those people.

I did not have one to begin with, but after an "incident" landing in St. Louis in 2002, I do now. I try to convince myself the stats are with me. It works better sometimes, than others.
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post #80 of 88
3/3/09 at 1:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdl203 View Post
Ironic because you're complaining that babies cramp your own lifestyle. Babies are and will be part of your surroundings all your life. I don't think you need to tell anyone that they need to change their lifestyle when they have kids - the reality of things is good enough for them. Again, stop trotting your Aruba/Caribbean story to make your point - when was the last time you flew to Aruba? You're using this as a strawman. Sometimes, families have to go places, sometimes they want their children to experience new things. So either they leave the kids locked behind at home and leave pellets of food on the floor for them for the week, or they take them with them. Families tend to travel together, even though it makes your flying experience slightly less enjoyable at times. I honestly didn't think you of all people would express such inane opinion. Do you think people take their children on planes because they enjoy to hear them cry or something?

Aren't you building a strawman yourself when I say "babies" and you broaden it to "children". I dun want to fight one of my few forum allies anyway so let's terrorist fistbump and agree to disagree (to be honest I just don't see a resolution to this debate, I don't mind fighting you)
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post #81 of 88
3/3/09 at 1:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post
I did not have one to begin with, but after an "incident" landing in St. Louis in 2002, I do now. I try to convince myself the stats are with me. It works better sometimes, than others.

It's not the stats it's the perceived lack of control...
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post #82 of 88
3/3/09 at 2:17pm
If the children are very well behaved, then by all means start them early. If they're not well behaved, the obviously no.
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post #83 of 88
3/3/09 at 2:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by globetrotter View Post
I agree that the kids need to be well behaved, and I am not sure I'd take my kid to a place where the average price was >100 bucks a head - I've come very close to that, we've taken my kids a lot to places where the average price per head was around 75 bucks.

I think that kids have to be tought to behave in the adult world, and the way to do that is to allow them to visit the adult world. we have taken my kids to a lot of museums, and only at the Met have we gotten rude remarks from people about it. we take our kids to "adult" resteraunts regularly, but our kids are pretty well behaved.

+1. We started visiting museums with our child when he was barely walking, and the manners at home while at the table are no different than the ones expected in a nice restaurant. But I do see a difference when he has friends coming over for lunch, they are likely to get up during the meal, will pick up a large piece of meat with the fork and bite into it, don't know how to hold a fork and knife and cut properly. And they're all 5 and 6 years old, not 3.
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post #84 of 88
3/3/09 at 4:02pm
Quote:
asshole

uh huh...I am not willing to tolerate bad behavior in a place where it is an expected aspect of the environment to not take place...and I'm the asshole????? It is the idea that there is some kind of entitlement on the part of parents to subject others to the bad behavior of their children any time and any place that makes me think "asshole".


Quote:
a parents job is to prepare their children for the real world - and that includes how to eat in a nice resteraunt

The key flaw in your logic, is that you think basic table manner standards at a restaurant should be any different than at the home dinner table.
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post #85 of 88
3/3/09 at 6:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post
Once again, I don't dislike children at all, see no problem in seeing them almost anywhere but babies on a plane, just no if possible.

there are a few really problematic issues with planes

1. kids can be very unpredictable on planes. my kids have flown many times, probrably my son has had >20 take offs and my twins maybe >10. most of the time they are fine, but they have each had a bad flight at one point or another.

2. there can often be a lot of stress on a flight - a lot of times kids are flying to family events, or the family is stretching the budget to fly and everyone is uptight, making good kids cranky

3. for life events people fly with kids that have never flown before, and usually with all the possible tension. but they have a very good reason to fly with kids at that point.
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post #86 of 88
3/4/09 at 3:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabienne View Post
+1. We started visiting museums with our child when he was barely walking, and the manners at home while at the table are no different than the ones expected in a nice restaurant. But I do see a difference when he has friends coming over for lunch, they are likely to get up during the meal, will pick up a large piece of meat with the fork and bite into it, don't know how to hold a fork and knife and cut properly. And they're all 5 and 6 years old, not 3.

This I have to agree with. Most americans, even from decent families, have abominable table manners. I am not necessarily one to extoll tradition and I know that I am unconventional in many ways, but if there's one stodgy things I'll teach my kids it's good table manners. To me there is no bigger turn off than a woman with poor table manners. It's hard for me to even tolerate it from friends. Some of my friends are not from great backgrounds socio economically, but they can hold a knife and fork and eat with some grace. It's incredibly simple to know how to do, and the fact is that it's efficient.
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post #87 of 88
3/4/09 at 4:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by freshcutgrass View Post
The key flaw in your logic, is that you think basic table manner standards at a restaurant should be any different than at the home dinner table.
You are making the incorrect assumption that learning/practicing table manners is the only benefit that children takeaway from dining at fine establishments. And just to be clear, I'm not suggesting that parents ought their bring ill mannered children to nice restaurants. Nothing is worse than a bunch of bratty kids running around a restaurant. I do think, however, that well mannered children benefit from experiencing the occasional meal at fine dining establishments.
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post #88 of 88
3/4/09 at 5:18pm
Quote:
You are making the incorrect assumption that learning/practicing table manners is the only benefit that children takeaway from dining at fine establishments.

True...it's never too early to learn how to tip well.


Quote:
I do think, however, that well mannered children benefit from experiencing the occasional meal at fine dining establishments.

Of course they do.

The sooner they are exposed to various types of social interactions, the better. If you hadn't figured it out yet, my responses were mostly tongue & cheek.
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