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How much of SF groupthink do you actually follow? - Page 10

post #136 of 170
AS someone in the trade.
I see first hand group think requests.
such as
formal shirts: marcela bib fronts with a voile body.
as soon as I show then what voile is, they back off and try to mask their ignorance of the fabric.

are your shirts MTM or bespoke?

Can you make me the Ed morel collar or the GDL collar or is that reserved just for them?

Do you carry Thomas Mason fabrics?

I will try to think of a few more..

On a positive note. readers think I know what I am doing. and order shirts.
post #137 of 170

What is the difference between muslin and voile? 

post #138 of 170
No doubt, internet groupthink is a real phenomenom but I think its influence in large part corresponds to the relative age and experience of its audience. For old farts like me, who began thinking about and buying high-end clothing long before the advent of the net, rules set forth by strangers who have dubious bona fides have little force. For this reason, I rarely look at SF's "good taste" threads. OTOH, I have learned a lot from other posters' experiences with makers and sellers of clothing and fabric with whom I'm unfamiliar.

However,younger forum members who are recently out of school and/or first thinking about how they dress and fit in the work place are more obviously influenced by what they read on the net. That's not necessarily a bad thing, if it's tempered by healthy skepticism, other sources of information, including the workplace and an open mind.
post #139 of 170
What's so groupthink in Styleforum? None of the examples suggested qualify with clarity. You probably didn't see the effects of groupthink in the meetup because there actually isn't much of it.
post #140 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claghorn View Post

What is the difference between muslin and voile? 
muslin is a loosely woven unfinished fabric that is used to make mock up samples.
it is rather inexpensive.

Voile is also lighter woven like a batiste.
but it uses finer cotton and and is finely finished.
voile can be inexpensive and used for home furnishing.
but as a shirt. fabric. It is usually made in high end mills.
you can see through it.
sometimes voile shirts have doubled fronts.
post #141 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirtmaven View Post

AS someone in the trade.
I see first hand group think requests.
such as
formal shirts: marcela bib fronts with a voile body.
as soon as I show then what voile is, they back off and try to mask their ignorance of the fabric.
are your shirts MTM or bespoke?
Can you make me the Ed morel collar or the GDL collar or is that reserved just for them?
Do you carry Thomas Mason fabrics?
I will try to think of a few more..
On a positive note. readers think I know what I am doing. and order shirts.

I'm pretty sure that a certain self proclaimed style god and expert in all matters sartorial had a formal shirt made with Marcella bib front and voile body. foo.gif
post #142 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirtmaven View Post

AS someone in the trade.
I see first hand group think requests.
such as
formal shirts: marcela bib fronts with a voile body.
as soon as I show then what voile is, they back off and try to mask their ignorance of the fabric.
are your shirts MTM or bespoke?
Can you make me the Ed morel collar or the GDL collar or is that reserved just for them?
Do you carry Thomas Mason fabrics?
I will try to think of a few more..
On a positive note. readers think I know what I am doing. and order shirts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Claghorn View Post

What is the difference between muslin and voile? 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ianiceman View Post

I'm pretty sure that a certain self proclaimed style god and expert in all matters sartorial had a formal shirt made with Marcella bib front and voile body. foo.gif

It's conversations like this that make me come back to SF to learn more.

Carry on gents. bigstar[1].gif
post #143 of 170
Regarding the concept of "groupthink", I think Manton had some interesting thoughts a couple of years ago:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post

"Groupthink" is often criticized here, and more often cited elsewhere as evidence of our derangement.

It is true, at least partially, that some things get a lot of love here while others are almost universally derided. But is that "groupthink" necessarily?

Since I have been enjoying cooking analogies lately, I will continue with one. Gather 10 or 100 foodies in a room. Chances are 90% or more of them -- probably close to all of them -- are going to love foie gras. Is that "groupthink"? Or is there something inherent in the subject matter that leads a refined palate in that direction?

As soon as one uses a phrase like "refined palate" one is out on a limb. What is "refined"? Who decides? Who excludes? Who is excluded? Where is the line?

It is not easy to answer those questions. But it is conversely too easy to say "'Refined' has no meaning, it is all in the eye (or palate) of the beholder."

Are there sartorial conventions/ratios/proportions/colors/patterns/shapes/textures/combinations, etc. that are somehow inherently more pleasing than others? Do the most sartorially inclined tend to gravitate toward those things? This is not to say that tastes at the top must be identical, or that the best dressed will inevitably all look alike. That is a silly strawman -- one I expect to see repeated, probably in this thread and certainly elsewhere.

It is to ask, is there a common vocabulary that is hierarchical in nature? The same way that a bunch of restaurant critics might disagree as to their absolute favorite, and disagree violently as to the merits of this or that restaurant -- but tell them to produce a list of the 100 best, and rank them, and chances are those lists are going to look a lot alike.

http://www.styleforum.net/t/89231/groupthink-or-connoisseurs-consensus

And an interesting response ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Virginia Dandy View Post


Are there sartorial conventions/ratios/proportions/colors/patterns/shapes/textures/combinations, etc. that are somehow inherently more pleasing than others? Do the most sartorially inclined tend to gravitate toward those things?

I think so. A friend who is an architectural historian has a long spiel about how there is an unknowable quality about what is pleasing, but there is most certainly a set of quantifiable proportions that have proven to be pleasing to the masses for thousands of years. This is not to say that there are not other proportions that some (but nowhere near as many) also find pleasing.

I think if you were to show the average person a properly-fitted suit that conforms to the SF consensus ideals next to a fused, mass-market RTW that may or may not fit properly, I'm pretty confident that the vast majority would pick the SF example as being more pleasing. That person would probably have a hard time expressing why, though. I think the same result would obtain when presented with a plain black cap toe oxford - EG top drawer or G&G on the one hand and AE or the like on the other.

If your tastes are more on the edge and fall outside of these norms, fine - but to decry the phenomenon described above as "groupthink" is to lack the courage of your convictions.
post #144 of 170
/thread. So well put.
post #145 of 170
I can't really subscribe to the sentiments in either of the above posts as they are inapposite. It would be one thing, if the SF audience was like Manton's hypothetical foodies, who presumably come from a variety of backgrounds that draw from different experiences but still reach some agreement about what "good" is. However, my sense is that many SF posters have recently taken on clothing as a serious pursuit and much, if not most, of what they know comes from this forum. In such cases, the forum serves as echo chamber in which opinions are self-validated, particularly when they are expressed by those with a little bit of experience and a lot of self-confidence. The truth is, there is lots of room for honest disagreement about clothing, even by those in the know. There are many, myself included, who like a drapey, soft shoulder look. However, there are others very knowledgable about clothing, including Gay Talese for example, who equally despise the look. Too often preference is interpreted on the forum as dogma and those with little experience of their own can't tell the difference.
post #146 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivar View Post

Regarding the concept of "groupthink", I think Manton had some interesting thoughts a couple of years ago:
http://www.styleforum.net/t/89231/groupthink-or-connoisseurs-consensus
And an interesting response ...

 

 

This is true for say quality or brands. Ie Tom Ford is held in high regard on this forum. Many people would hold Tom Ford at the top of their lists from independent thinking. 

 

but say the example Shirtmaven gave marcela bib fronts with a voile body. that would be more clearly group think

post #147 of 170
Groupthink pokes at the tendency of people to follow the herd for the sake of consensus, without any personal color or thought.
This is emblematic in people adorning themselves with felt flowers and beaded bracelets. Or in those espousing rules read once on the interwebs or GQ without a full understanding or interpretation.

You see it in newbies who'll demand "how can i tell indochino to make me a slim cut european suit with high armholes to go with my new brown allen edmonds"
post #148 of 170
lurker[1].gif
post #149 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirtmaven View Post

Can you make me the Ed morel collar or the GDL collar or is that reserved just for them?

smile.gif

Just curious, has anyone ever ordered my crazy button-down collar?
post #150 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by VinnyMac View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Claghorn View Post

Rules must be understood to know how to properly break them.
 

 

...interesting. That very statement is a by-product of group-think. The assumption is that the "rules" are correct or (at the least) standards. You have to believe that to acknowledge that there's a right and wrong way to break them.

 

I don't (think that I) subscribe to much SF group-think simply because I don't care about most of the things discussed here. I'm more of a recreational user. I pop in to see pictures of things that I like, and I give my advice/two-cents when I see a particularly provocative topic. Still, there's not much written here that gets through to me because I just don't care enough.


good thing that you care enough to tell all of us how much you don't care, 340+ times in just about two months.

 

Solid.

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