(Taliesin @ April 25 2005,12:40) Quote
1)Do you believe that one facet of a society can have negative characteristics while another does not, particularly if that facet is an occupation?
Well, sure. Â I think that we see that all the time. Â For example, people say that the Russians make great vodka, but not great cars
. Â I don't think a less-than-positive review of Russian automobiles reveals contempt for all things Russian.
2)The posters perception is that Asians (Mongloids) are producing a sub-standard and inferior product to Europeans (Caucasoids), both of which are RACES, hence the comment is RACIST.
That's one interpretation, but given the racial diversity of modern Europe, I would assume that the writer was drawing a distinction between nationalities. Â I'm sure that the Row and the various factories in Italy both employ non-British or non-Italians, and even non-Europeans. Â Thus, the tailoring cultures in these different places are just that: Â cultures. Â Not racial characteristics. Â
3)I believe it's Xenophobic because there is an underlying culture of hatred towards Asians on this board and another fashion board for this reason I believe: a)The bespoke industry is dying in Europe b)The bespoke industry is growing in Asia a1)If it becomes possible (or is possible) to obtain a bespoke garment from Asia for 1/2 or less the price than a European bespoke garment; the elitism which accompanies Saville Row clothing will be lessened in the eyes of those that have paid $3000+ for their suits. You saw this kind of attitude in American in the 70s when Japanese car manufacturers began to sell Hondas and Toyotas here. Thankfully you dont see anyone referring to Asian tailors as Slants or worse; at least we don't see it - I'm sure it's happening verbally.
I too am glad that there's no name-calling. Â However (and I'm too young to know this first hand), wasn't it the case that Japanese cars really took off in the United States because they were affordable and good quality? Â The point the original writer was trying to make, I think, was that this Chan suit reveals the opposite state of affairs: Â an inferior product. Â Moreover, I think a little national pride is healthy. Â If an Italian or a Brit (and I am neither) said that his country's tailoring is the best, and better than anything found anywhere else, I wouldn't read that as "racist" or "xenophobic," but rather as an assertion of pride. Â Pride is good, so long as it doesn't turn ugly.
I have a problem with racial pride, not national pride. The tailor pejoratively labeled Asians as inferior tailors, and Brits and Italians as superior tailors - across the board. There are undoubtedly horrible British and Italian tailors and fantastic Asian (Indian, Thai, Chinese, Japanese, etc.) tailors. and Vice Versa. The pejorative that Asians are inferior craftsman is despicable though, and flat out racist. And that's what was said, PERIOD.[/quote] Dude, you need to chill out. The post was clearly referring to Asian TAILORS, not Asian "craftsmen" in general. I don't think someone posting about automobiles or high-end electronics would have the same opinion about the merits of Asian work product as compared to that of the UK or Italy. Second, as someone else pointed out, Naturlaut is himself Asian, so your ranting about racism is entirely misplaced. Finally, the post itself was largely accurate and based on facts, not prejudices. Asian tailors are primarily associated with low-cost, high-volume operations that sell through tours of American and European cities as well as to tourists visiting their countries. The typical Asian custom suit is produced based on one set of measurements that takes 5 or 10 minutes. Savile Row and Italian custom tailors, on the other hand, have a long tradition of quality workmanship and although they also do tours of American cities, they also have clients from around the world who visit them to have suits made. Moreover, most of them require multiple measurement and fitting sessions of an hour or more. I'm certainly not aware of any Asian tailors who have the same heritage and reputation as A&S, Huntsman, Battistoni, etc., etc., and you certainly don't see any Savile Row or Italian tailors charging $400 for a "custom" suit. You of all people should know the differences because of that awful piece of crap Ravis suit you posted on Ask Andy. While that may be primarily your fault for providing poor measurements and not specifying precisely what you wanted, it's difficult to imagine any Savile Row or Italian firm providing you with a similar garment.