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The Fall of Civilization - Page 5  

post #61 of 93
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(bryce330 @ April 26 2005,13:39)
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Originally Posted by jmswentworth,April 26 2005,13:36
Quote The type of culture and society developed by a particular nation or region or in a particular epoch: Mayan civilization; the civilization of ancient Rome.
Yes, civilization includes both culture and society, but how do you get from that to "requisition of the gentry"?   I'm still waiting for the complete jmswentworth definition of "civilization."
Simple enough, there is no society in the US.[/quote] While you are looking up the definition of "civilization," you might also want to look up the definition of "society."
post #62 of 93
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(jmswentworth @ April 26 2005,13:41)
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Originally Posted by bryce330,April 26 2005,13:39
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Originally Posted by jmswentworth,April 26 2005,13:36
Quote The type of culture and society developed by a particular nation or region or in a particular epoch: Mayan civilization; the civilization of ancient Rome.
Yes, civilization includes both culture and society, but how do you get from that to "requisition of the gentry"?   I'm still waiting for the complete jmswentworth definition of "civilization."
Simple enough, there is no society in the US.
While you are looking up the definition of "civilization," you might also want to look up the definition of "society."[/quote] " a part of the community that sets itself apart as a leisure class and that regards itself as the arbiter of fashion and manners" Hence - gentry comes to mind, no?
post #63 of 93
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(bryce330 @ April 26 2005,13:45)
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Originally Posted by jmswentworth,April 26 2005,13:41
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Originally Posted by bryce330,April 26 2005,13:39
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmswentworth,April 26 2005,13:36
Quote The type of culture and society developed by a particular nation or region or in a particular epoch: Mayan civilization; the civilization of ancient Rome.
Yes, civilization includes both culture and society, but how do you get from that to "requisition of the gentry"?   I'm still waiting for the complete jmswentworth definition of "civilization."
Simple enough, there is no society in the US.
While you are looking up the definition of "civilization," you might also want to look up the definition of "society."
" a part of the community that sets itself apart as a leisure class and that regards itself as the arbiter of fashion and manners" Hence - gentry comes to mind, no?[/quote] Nice try, but that is not the relevant meaning of society in the context of "civilization."
post #64 of 93
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(jmswentworth @ April 26 2005,13:47)
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Originally Posted by bryce330,April 26 2005,13:45
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Originally Posted by jmswentworth,April 26 2005,13:41
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Originally Posted by bryce330,April 26 2005,13:39
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Originally Posted by jmswentworth,April 26 2005,13:36
Quote The type of culture and society developed by a particular nation or region or in a particular epoch: Mayan civilization; the civilization of ancient Rome.
Yes, civilization includes both culture and society, but how do you get from that to "requisition of the gentry"?   I'm still waiting for the complete jmswentworth definition of "civilization."
Simple enough, there is no society in the US.
While you are looking up the definition of "civilization," you might also want to look up the definition of "society."
" a part of the community that sets itself apart as a leisure class and that regards itself as the arbiter of fashion and manners" Hence - gentry comes to mind, no?
Nice try, but that is not the relevant meaning of society in the context of "civilization."[/quote] Yes, it is.
post #65 of 93
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(globetrotter @ April 26 2005,13:36)
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Originally Posted by jmswentworth,April 26 2005,13:23
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Originally Posted by globetrotter,April 26 2005,13:20
ok, well it was fun playing along, but I think that you might want to run back to your dorm room and your fantasies now. should you graduate high school, and maybe get a little education into you, maybe we can have this talk again.
If you were even close to what I am, your comment may have some weight. Except, judging from your rudimentary knowledge, you are not, so ta-ta for now.
hmmm, what exactly are you, aside from a little boy whose ancestors happened to have parked their goats in the right place at the time somebody with an education came by and discovered oil?
You seem awfully insecure about your education.
not at all, I happily concede that in any of your invented personas, and very possilby in real life you have a much better education than I do. I am simply a real person, which I believe is a major advantage I hold over you.
post #66 of 93
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(jmswentworth @ April 26 2005,13:42)
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Originally Posted by globetrotter,April 26 2005,13:36
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Originally Posted by jmswentworth,April 26 2005,13:23
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Originally Posted by globetrotter,April 26 2005,13:20
ok, well it was fun playing along, but I think that you might want to run back to your dorm room and your fantasies now. should you graduate high school, and maybe get a little education into you, maybe we can have this talk again.
If you were even close to what I am, your comment may have some weight. Except, judging from your rudimentary knowledge, you are not, so ta-ta for now.
hmmm, what exactly are you, aside from a little boy whose ancestors happened to have parked their goats in the right place at the time somebody with an education came by and discovered oil?
You seem awfully insecure about your education.
not at all, I happily concede that in any of your invented personas, and very possilby in real life you have a much better education than I do. I am simply a real person, which I believe is a major advantage I hold over you.
????? Is this the cause of a lack of education, you think people do not exist?
post #67 of 93
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(bryce330 @ April 26 2005,14:11)
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Originally Posted by jmswentworth,April 26 2005,13:47
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Originally Posted by bryce330,April 26 2005,13:45
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Originally Posted by jmswentworth,April 26 2005,13:41
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Originally Posted by bryce330,April 26 2005,13:39
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmswentworth,April 26 2005,13:36
Quote The type of culture and society developed by a particular nation or region or in a particular epoch: Mayan civilization; the civilization of ancient Rome.
Yes, civilization includes both culture and society, but how do you get from that to "requisition of the gentry"?   I'm still waiting for the complete jmswentworth definition of "civilization."
Simple enough, there is no society in the US.
While you are looking up the definition of "civilization," you might also want to look up the definition of "society."
" a part of the community that sets itself apart as a leisure class and that regards itself as the arbiter of fashion and manners" Hence - gentry comes to mind, no?
Nice try, but that is not the relevant meaning of society in the context of "civilization."
Yes, it is.[/quote] So you can't have a civilization without a leisure class that regards itself as the arbiter of fashion and manners? Then please explain how the Aztecs were a civilization but not the US - the Aztecs had a class of ruling nobles but they were certainly a far cry from British gentry. I don't know too much about the Bedouin but I doubt they had "gentry" either.
post #68 of 93
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(jmswentworth @ April 26 2005,14:17)
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Originally Posted by bryce330,April 26 2005,14:11
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Originally Posted by jmswentworth,April 26 2005,13:47
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Originally Posted by bryce330,April 26 2005,13:45
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Originally Posted by jmswentworth,April 26 2005,13:41
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Originally Posted by bryce330,April 26 2005,13:39
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmswentworth,April 26 2005,13:36
Quote The type of culture and society developed by a particular nation or region or in a particular epoch: Mayan civilization; the civilization of ancient Rome.
Yes, civilization includes both culture and society, but how do you get from that to "requisition of the gentry"?   I'm still waiting for the complete jmswentworth definition of "civilization."
Simple enough, there is no society in the US.
While you are looking up the definition of "civilization," you might also want to look up the definition of "society."
" a part of the community that sets itself apart as a leisure class and that regards itself as the arbiter of fashion and manners" Hence - gentry comes to mind, no?
Nice try, but that is not the relevant meaning of society in the context of "civilization."
Yes, it is.
So you can't have a civilization without a leisure class that regards itself as the arbiter of fashion and manners?   Then please explain how the Aztecs were a civilization but not the US - the Aztecs had a class of ruling nobles but they were certainly a far cry from British gentry.   I don't know too much about the Bedouin but I doubt they had "gentry" either.[/quote] read, or re-read my earlier posts.
post #69 of 93
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(bryce330 @ April 26 2005,14:11)
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Originally Posted by jmswentworth,April 26 2005,13:47
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Originally Posted by bryce330,April 26 2005,13:45
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Originally Posted by jmswentworth,April 26 2005,13:41
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryce330,April 26 2005,13:39
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmswentworth,April 26 2005,13:36
Quote The type of culture and society developed by a particular nation or region or in a particular epoch: Mayan civilization; the civilization of ancient Rome.
Yes, civilization includes both culture and society, but how do you get from that to "requisition of the gentry"?   I'm still waiting for the complete jmswentworth definition of "civilization."
Simple enough, there is no society in the US.
While you are looking up the definition of "civilization," you might also want to look up the definition of "society."
" a part of the community that sets itself apart as a leisure class and that regards itself as the arbiter of fashion and manners" Hence - gentry comes to mind, no?
Nice try, but that is not the relevant meaning of society in the context of "civilization."
Yes, it is.[/quote] so, if I understand you correctly, in order for a group of people to have a civilization, there needs to be a hereditary leasure class? and you feel that with immigration, the UK will develop a leasure class and, with it, a civillization?
post #70 of 93
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(jmswentworth @ April 26 2005,14:17)
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Originally Posted by bryce330,April 26 2005,14:11
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Originally Posted by jmswentworth,April 26 2005,13:47
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Originally Posted by bryce330,April 26 2005,13:45
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Originally Posted by jmswentworth,April 26 2005,13:41
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryce330,April 26 2005,13:39
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmswentworth,April 26 2005,13:36
Quote The type of culture and society developed by a particular nation or region or in a particular epoch: Mayan civilization; the civilization of ancient Rome.
Yes, civilization includes both culture and society, but how do you get from that to "requisition of the gentry"?   I'm still waiting for the complete jmswentworth definition of "civilization."
Simple enough, there is no society in the US.
While you are looking up the definition of "civilization," you might also want to look up the definition of "society."
" a part of the community that sets itself apart as a leisure class and that regards itself as the arbiter of fashion and manners" Hence - gentry comes to mind, no?
Nice try, but that is not the relevant meaning of society in the context of "civilization."
Yes, it is.
so, if I understand you correctly, in order for a group of people to have a civilization, there needs to be a hereditary leasure class? and you feel that with immigration, the UK will develop a leasure class and, with it, a civillization?[/quote] Almost. Except, there is already a leisure class in the UK. However, at this stage, they do not appreciate the gentry, therefore, with immigration; the leisure class will develop an appreciation for the gentry and aristocracy. Thus, by definition there will be civilisation.
post #71 of 93
so, immigrants will aprectiate the leasure class, and this will create a civillization. I see. ok, next question - which immigrants, and which leasure class? do you believe that pakastani people, who come over and work hard and try to get a good life for the families, should develop a love for sloan rangers? or are you suggesting that they will bring their own leasure class? or are you thinking of a differnet type of immigrant?
post #72 of 93
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so, immigrants will aprectiate the leasure class, and this will create a civillization. I see. ok, next question - which immigrants, and which leasure class? do you believe that pakastani people, who come over and work hard and try to get a good life for the families, should develop a love for sloan rangers? or are you suggesting that they will bring their own leasure class? or are you thinking of a differnet type of immigrant?
Do you understand what leisure class means? Leisure class are the lower classes, I think you have the term confused. No, immigrants will not appreciate the leisure class, the current leisure class will appreciate the gentry because currently they (the gentry) support anti immigration policies. Thus, as is even currently the case, when the immigrants become even more of a drain on social services, the leisure class will begin to appreciate what the gentry have believed in all along.
post #73 of 93
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Leisure class are the lower classes, I think you have the term confused.
OMG - you really think the term "leisure class" refers to the lower classes?   I was honestly trying to give you a chance to work your way out of your earlier remarks, but I give up - I don't know if you are Kalra/Avnish/Styleman but you are truly an idiot.
post #74 of 93
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(globetrotter @ April 26 2005,14:45) so, immigrants will aprectiate the leasure class, and this will create a civillization. I see. ok, next question - which immigrants, and which leasure class? do you believe that pakastani people, who come over and work hard and try to get a good life for the families, should develop a love for sloan rangers? or are you suggesting that they will bring their own leasure class? or are you thinking of a differnet type of immigrant?
Do you understand what leisure class means? Leisure class are the lower classes, I think you have the term confused. No, immigrants will not appreciate the leisure class, the current leisure class will appreciate the gentry because currently they (the gentry) support anti immigration policies. Thus, as is even currently the case, when the immigrants become even more of a drain on social services, the leisure class will begin to appreciate what the gentry have believed in all along.
ok, 1. immigrants will come to the UK 2. the poor people will hate the immigrants 3. the poor people will love the "gentry" because the "gentry" have been against immigration. I see. and this will be a totally new form of civilization, not related to wessex. I see..... first, your english isn't very good. in my university classes in political philosophy (admitidly not at oxford), the "leasure class" wasn't the poor people, it was what you seem to call the "gentry" secondly, there is not logical thread what so ever in this concept. you are contradicting yourself left and right. third, it is as though you have never read a book on history, or politics. so, I am not sure if this is where you laugh and tel me you were pulling my leg this whole time, or if you now try to argue that your theory makes some kind of sense.
post #75 of 93
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(jmswentworth @ April 26 2005,14:54) Leisure class are the lower classes, I think you have the term confused.
OMG - you really think the term "leisure class" refers to the lower classes?   I was honestly trying to give you a chance to work your way out of your earlier remarks, but I give up - I don't know if you are Kalra/Avnish/Styleman but you are truly an idiot.
Agreed, in terms of that, I am an idiot, and you have every right to call me one. It was my mistake. However, I still remain with my views on civilisation.
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