Originally Posted by randallr
I think people are baiting Sator as much as he is bating everyone else.
I've thought about this, and I do not believe that it is true except in the sense that Sator's posts on drape here on SF now reliablely draw an acerbic and somewhat exasperated response from Manton.
All these discussions on the topic had earier variants where most of us were trying to articulate the differences...subsequently, however, Sator did a lot of research and developed an interesting and plausible storyline for the place of drape and the Drape Cut in sartorial history. Sator's reading is neither definitive nor complete, but I find it interesting. I also find Manton's refutations interesting. Since I do not have the time or resources to investigate this aspect of history as these two do, I just enjoy reading what both have to say even if it might be heated in the Internet fashion.
But: this is 2009, not 1939. I can as easily understand why someone might prefer a lean, structured cut as I can understand someone preferring softness and drape. But to imply or state that one form of tailoring as it is practiced today
is intrinsicly superior in effect and quality for all men seems a bit silly...especially with a profound lack of evidence for that. In fact, I think it is rather uninformed...or more likely, purposely myopic. There are plenty of bespoke tragedies to hand out for all tailoring styles. I find the successes more illuminating than the failures, but then, I'm fairly happy-go-lucky.
The cutters, tailors, and houses that produce soft, draped clothing include men who are among the best at what they do today amidst the declining numbers practicing the vanishing craft of tailoring. Sator has been complimentary of my Steed stuff. I suspect this is because I wear the leanest jackets among the Drapists...but even if Sator were to explain that while he likes my Steed, he would prefer to see me in a Huntsman or Dege, well, he should stop there and not go on to implying without direct obervation that the quality of make is poor.
It's not. I would happily stack the stuff that Ron Hardy has sewn up for me over the years, and the items that Mariano Rubinacci's tailors make for his clients, against any comers...English, Italian, American, Chinese...or Australian.
Originally Posted by randallr
Some on here talk about drape is if it were the apex of tailoring and that clean-cut is for those that appreciate and can only afford RTW. Do you disagree, Vox? Often it's talked about as if it were something only the wealthy and established could afford.
Well, even within this thread, Sator has come out and said that classic, structured tailoring is the best and contrasts that with using drape in a jacket. Intrinsically the best. When Sator is talking about such tailoring, he is not talking about your Polo RTW blazer. Because if Sator is adament on any topics more than the inferiority of a drape cut, it is in (a) the superiority of heavy classic suitings and (b) in the irrefutable mediocrity of RTW compared to bespoke tailored clothing (I think I describe his viewpoint accurately.) Your Polo blazer does not quality on either count.
In contrast, has anyone who wears a draped jacket written or said that drape is the best, drape is for everyone? Well, maybe Flusser took that position...but I don't think that he has an SF pseudonym. Except maybe one guy...
Originally Posted by mafoofan
Who? Who's said that drape is the apex of tailoring? Some people just prefer it, as far as I can tell. For whatever reason, others find that offensive.
...here we are. Foofy has come closest to almost saying that the soft, drape cut is the best. But really, what happened when he started posting on the subject is that he had found happiness in Rubinacci. He was enthusiastic and excited. And perhaps that translated a bit into people reading his extensive commentary on his Rubinacci experiences to mean that he was arguing they were the world's apex tailor and their style the apex style. In his defense, however, even he in those early moments of new enthusiasm never came right out and said that other stuff was shit (well, other than Oxxford.) I suppose his Foofing thread reinforces his perspective of what is better even on others, but still, he would be the first to clarify that he is only stating his personal preferences.
That's what I think.