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Drape tutorial? - Page 23

post #331 of 343
"Some men there are love not a gaping pig, some that are mad if they behold a cat, and others when the bagpipe sings i' the nose cannot contain their urine."

post #332 of 343
Quote:
Originally Posted by randallr View Post
I think people are baiting Sator as much as he is bating everyone else.

I've thought about this, and I do not believe that it is true except in the sense that Sator's posts on drape here on SF now reliablely draw an acerbic and somewhat exasperated response from Manton.

All these discussions on the topic had earier variants where most of us were trying to articulate the differences...subsequently, however, Sator did a lot of research and developed an interesting and plausible storyline for the place of drape and the Drape Cut in sartorial history. Sator's reading is neither definitive nor complete, but I find it interesting. I also find Manton's refutations interesting. Since I do not have the time or resources to investigate this aspect of history as these two do, I just enjoy reading what both have to say even if it might be heated in the Internet fashion.

But: this is 2009, not 1939. I can as easily understand why someone might prefer a lean, structured cut as I can understand someone preferring softness and drape. But to imply or state that one form of tailoring as it is practiced today is intrinsicly superior in effect and quality for all men seems a bit silly...especially with a profound lack of evidence for that. In fact, I think it is rather uninformed...or more likely, purposely myopic. There are plenty of bespoke tragedies to hand out for all tailoring styles. I find the successes more illuminating than the failures, but then, I'm fairly happy-go-lucky.

The cutters, tailors, and houses that produce soft, draped clothing include men who are among the best at what they do today amidst the declining numbers practicing the vanishing craft of tailoring. Sator has been complimentary of my Steed stuff. I suspect this is because I wear the leanest jackets among the Drapists...but even if Sator were to explain that while he likes my Steed, he would prefer to see me in a Huntsman or Dege, well, he should stop there and not go on to implying without direct obervation that the quality of make is poor.

It's not. I would happily stack the stuff that Ron Hardy has sewn up for me over the years, and the items that Mariano Rubinacci's tailors make for his clients, against any comers...English, Italian, American, Chinese...or Australian.

Quote:
Originally Posted by randallr View Post
Some on here talk about drape is if it were the apex of tailoring and that clean-cut is for those that appreciate and can only afford RTW. Do you disagree, Vox? Often it's talked about as if it were something only the wealthy and established could afford.

Well, even within this thread, Sator has come out and said that classic, structured tailoring is the best and contrasts that with using drape in a jacket. Intrinsically the best. When Sator is talking about such tailoring, he is not talking about your Polo RTW blazer. Because if Sator is adament on any topics more than the inferiority of a drape cut, it is in (a) the superiority of heavy classic suitings and (b) in the irrefutable mediocrity of RTW compared to bespoke tailored clothing (I think I describe his viewpoint accurately.) Your Polo blazer does not quality on either count.

In contrast, has anyone who wears a draped jacket written or said that drape is the best, drape is for everyone? Well, maybe Flusser took that position...but I don't think that he has an SF pseudonym. Except maybe one guy...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post
Who? Who's said that drape is the apex of tailoring? Some people just prefer it, as far as I can tell. For whatever reason, others find that offensive.

...here we are. Foofy has come closest to almost saying that the soft, drape cut is the best. But really, what happened when he started posting on the subject is that he had found happiness in Rubinacci. He was enthusiastic and excited. And perhaps that translated a bit into people reading his extensive commentary on his Rubinacci experiences to mean that he was arguing they were the world's apex tailor and their style the apex style. In his defense, however, even he in those early moments of new enthusiasm never came right out and said that other stuff was shit (well, other than Oxxford.) I suppose his Foofing thread reinforces his perspective of what is better even on others, but still, he would be the first to clarify that he is only stating his personal preferences.

That's what I think.




- B
post #333 of 343
Quote:
Originally Posted by voxsartoria View Post
I've thought about this, and I do not believe that it is true except in the sense that Sator's posts on drape here on SF now reliablely draw an acerbic and somewhat exasperated response from Manton.

What can I say? He is exasperating.

As I have noted, he was always strange, but he used to be strange in a sociable, endearing way. For months now, he has just been militant. He has points that he wants to hammer home, mostly in service of some perceived "truth" that he feels refutes online "groupthink."

But when anyone posts counter evidence, he just ignores it. There was another example on AAAC where he posted that "the stroller" never existed. It was made up by iGents. His evidence amounted to negative proofs. He saw no mention of it in this or that source, hence it did not exist. But I and others posted several direct references to "strollers" in primary sources from the '30s. He simply ignored all that. He ignores anything that undermines whatever new "truth" he is championing at the moment.
post #334 of 343
How does a person know which style (drape or clean chested) will look best on them without going out and buying one of each?
post #335 of 343
Quote:
Originally Posted by BWB View Post
How does a person know which style (drape or clean chested) will look best on them without going out and buying one of each?

That is the definitive way.

The man with the widest experience with this who posts here is RSS, who has both a very extensive A&S wardrobe and also an deep array of stuff from Huntsman and Richard Anderson.

Which of the two major style variants does he prefer? Neither...he likes each for different applications and moods.

I have a lot of sympathy for that point of view, which is oriented to enjoying the best of what life and variety offer, each in its own way, rather than to be so narrow in taste that good things elude you.


- B
post #336 of 343
So are we still talking about drape here?
post #337 of 343
Quote:
Originally Posted by teddieriley View Post
So are we still talking about drape here?

Why are you in this thread?

Haven't you heard of GPS


- B
post #338 of 343
With 23 pages, I assumed this thread would be riveting and wanted to join the party. I was wrong.
post #339 of 343
Quote:
Originally Posted by teddieriley View Post
With 23 pages, I assumed this thread would be riveting and wanted to join the party. I was wrong.

It's a classic n00b thing to click on any thread longer than two pages.

Don't worry about it.


- B
post #340 of 343
Quote:
Originally Posted by voxsartoria View Post
That is the definitive way.

The man with the widest experience with this who posts here is RSS, who has both a very extensive A&S wardrobe and also an deep array of stuff from Huntsman and Richard Anderson.

Which of the two major style variants does he prefer? Neither...he likes each for different applications and moods.

I have a lot of sympathy for that point of view, which is oriented to enjoying the best of what life and variety offer, each in its own way, rather than to be so narrow in taste that good things elude you.

- B

Despite all the evil that you and yours have inflicted, God bless you for this.
post #341 of 343
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post
What can I say? He is exasperating.

As I have noted, he was always strange, but he used to be strange in a sociable, endearing way. For months now, he has just been militant. He has points that he wants to hammer home, mostly in service of some perceived "truth" that he feels refutes online "groupthink."


You are, of course, opposed to ad hominem arguments I recall.
post #342 of 343
post #343 of 343
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