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post #46 of 94
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I have to disagree with this completely. As a scientist, I think that information sharing and technological transfer is vital and should be encouraged as much as possible.
LAGuy, You are free to disagree, of course. From the point-of-view of the small entrepreneur, there is a world of difference between the advantages to the human race through the advance of science and the competetion of the free-market which, by its very nature, decrees that some business will succeed while others fail. Were that not the case, businesses large and small would not be investing in security systems designed to safeguard their proprietary information. You may consider that wrong; others generally do not disagree with one's right to protect intellectual property.
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And as a free marketer, you should agree with Mmathew is free to do with what was essentially his "intellectual property" as he sees fit.
Also correct. However, at the time Mathew had indicated that he was interested in entering the bespoke clothing business. It would not serve him well therein to have published all of his resources for all of the reasons which I specifically enumerated and which you have ignored in your post, such as the inordinate burden placed on extremely small suppliers and the consumer price increases which are the inevitable result of such a burden.
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And BTW, it does sort of turn me off that you care that your clients are rich and/or famous.
I was more specific than that. I am - as I carefully said - in awe of their ability to manage such large holdings successfully. Hopefully, they do so to the benefit of the hundreds of thousands they keep gainfully employed. For my part, the largest number of employees I've ever had was approximately 100 - and I shall never forget how difficult it was to fairly manage the needs and desires of so many. It is not a case of "caring that they are rich", but a sense of awe that they are capable of succeeding at such large enterprises.
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information sharing about suppliers, good manufacturers, good mills, etc... this is just part of professional courtesy.
Here we completely agree. For my part, I have taught more shirtmakers more technical things about shirtmaking than I have ever heard of any other shirtmaker doing. What I was quite specifically cautioning against was the sharing of resources with the public-at-large (again, for the exact reasons I enumerated), not one-on-one with fellow members of the trade as a professional courtesy.
post #47 of 94
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The finest example I can give you is a magician. The rule in the magic field is, "NEVER tell how a trick is done." I am not saying that custom-making should go to that extent. However, it seems to me that your sharing of the vast knowledge you have acquired has absolutely no bounds whatsoever. You need to begin to set certain limits on what you will and what you won't share. I would like to see you address this issue with me as this is the second time in as many months that I have brought it up with you.
Alex, I have to disagree with this completely.  As a scientist, I think that information sharing and technological transfer is vital and should be encouraged as much as possible.  And as a free marketer, you should agree with Mmathew is free to do with what was essentially his "intellectual property" as he sees fit.   As for the whole magician thing, I think that is just bogus.  I have lots of friends in the fashion industry, and except for the real assholes, there is camaderie among the small designers - they give each other heads up on good manufacturers, laundries, etc...  and anyone who tries to take advantage of the situation is ostracized by the rest of the community.   No, you don't have to tell people all the secrets of your trade (I guess that in a business like yours, where designs do not change from collection to collection, this would be akin to telling everyone what your designs are going to be before having shown them,) but information sharing about suppliers, good manufacturers, good mills, etc...  this is just part of professional courtesy.   And BTW, it does sort of turn me off that you care that your clients are rich and/or famous.  I know more than one (very well respected) jeans designer who would rather see his product on a real jean freak who seriously cares about the product than some rich celebrity who doesn't give a damn.  In fact, and this may have been a stupid move on his part, he often charges celebrity clients extra, and has refused to make a product for a particularly obnoxious celebrity.
I can see what you mean LA Guy. However here is the difference, you are an academic scientist, as far as I can gather you are not part of any private initiatives (I could be wrong). The sharing of information in academia is crucial, information is academia's currency, therefore the more you present, the better off you are in the eyes of your peers. Alex is making a living doing something in a private enterprise in which he has developed techniques that are unique to him. I very much agree with him that he has a right to ask someone to not publish his secrets. He is obviously not being secretive and paranoid given that he took so much time to share the information in the first place, he just doesn't want his tricks of the trade which took years to develop to evaporate in seconds from full disclosure. Also, your jeans comparison is apples and oranges. Jeans, though becoming expensive, are still at the end of the day in a different league than dress shirts. The latter are worn by the very customers whom Alex holds a great deal of respect for, so I wouldn't fault him on admiring the people for whom the bespoke shirt is meant.
post #48 of 94
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Just as my awe exists at the work of some of my clients ... living in a multitude of homes, travelling amongst them on their own jets, running some of the largest firms on the Planet ...
I could be wrong but this dosen't really sound like admiration of managerial capabilities, more like boasting about ones clientele. Not that there is anything wrong with that, businesses do it all the time not to mention universities that constantly flaunt their famous but not necessarily very bright alumini.
post #49 of 94
I'm not sure what anyone posting on this thread still is trying to prove.
post #50 of 94
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I can see what you mean LA Guy. However here is the difference, you are an academic scientist, as far as I can gather you are not part of any private initiatives (I could be wrong). The sharing of information in academia is crucial, information is academia's currency, therefore the more you present, the better off you are in the eyes of your peers.
My last word on the subject. Actually, information sharing *can* adversely affect you in academia, just as it can in business. You are constantly competing for grant money, and if a competitor consistently publishes more articles than you based on your results, and not citing you as a co-author (happens), you can figure out who gets screwed. A large contingent on academics jealously guard their "trade secrets" as it were for this very reason, and I see this as a very sad reflection on the corporatization of the academic world. Maybe Ayn Rand will see her utopia post mortem after all - it'll be a shittier world for it though.
post #51 of 94
I'm pretty sure that my best friend who's a prominent chef in the City would NOT be divulging all his recipes to a competitor. He probably wouldn't share all the details with a bus-boy either, which is what it sounds like we had here in this situation. What's to keep the newbie employee (prospective employee) from taking this info to the chef at the restaurant across town. He might mentor him, and teach him a few "tricks of the trade", share his wealth of kitchen tools, basting shortcuts, etc... but it is entirely up to him HOW MUCH and WHAT he chooses to divulge.  If the protege wishes to do some research on his own, that's GREAT.  He should be taught in this nascent station in his career to use discretion, even though he's anxious to tell the world what all he knows. Note:  I don't know either party involved here in this particular situation, but that allows me to be completely objective.
post #52 of 94
post #53 of 94
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He might mentor him, and teach him a few "tricks of the trade", share his wealth of kitchen tools, basting shortcuts, etc... but it is entirely up to him HOW MUCH and WHAT he chooses to divulge. If the protege wishes to do some research on his own, that's GREAT. He should be taught in this nascent station in his career to use discretion, even though he's anxious to tell the world what all he knows.
Wish I could have said that so simply and concisely.
post #54 of 94
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I have had much to think about recently, and have not had a whole lot of time to post on the StyleForum.  I am not sure when I will be back posting on the Forum regularly, I have been quite busy with "real life", and have spent very little time on my computer.  Most of my time has been spent sending out resumes and searching for housing in Manhattan.
Understandable.. don't be a stranger.  All the best in your new life sans GF.
post #55 of 94
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(Joe G @ April 18 2005,00:16)
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Originally Posted by Nick M,April 15 2005,08:55
There were two over at Andy's site: "Joe G", and "Joe G." (note the full stop). Can't remember which was which, though.
I do not recall ever posting at Andy's site, though perhaps I did at one point and simply cannot recall it. At any rate, the search function there seems defective so I cannot say if one or either of those people using my name is me.
I looked thourgh the archives, and I can only hope that was a troll. I believe in the freedom of speech, but some things are better left unsaid even if you truly believe that. Even then, I refuse to believe that any sane person who has access to the truth, undistorted by the propaganda of their governments, would truly feel this way. Otherwise, you have to be a sicko to state things like '9-11 was not unique in its horror. The people of Palestein live under the same threat of terrorism from the Israelis who massacre them using American made weapons.'
Nope, that had to be the real Joe G. That's his schtick - racist, anti-Semitic, and anti-American hatemongering. He's been doing it for several years - I remember he was one of the most active posters on the old Modern Man forum when that was the place to be (before SF and AA were started). The quote you found is actually one of the least objectionable things he's posted. It's amusing to see that he claims he no longer posts because he's lost interest in clothing, since he never seemed to be all that interested in clothing in the first place. However, I'm glad to see that his life has presumably improved to the point where he no longer needs to spend massive amounts of time posting vile, hateful rhetoric on boards ostensibly dedicated to men's clothing.
post #56 of 94
Man, I was "away" from SF for the weekend fighting a horrible intestinal virus. Now I read this and the "what's the solution" and Kingsly Street threads and the gut ache I had doesn't seem so bad.
post #57 of 94
Speaking of missing posters, is drizzt3117 still around?  I haven't been around much myself the past few weeks, so I may be mistaken, but I haven't seen any posts from him lately. EDIT: just realized there was a separate thread re: drizzt3117.
post #58 of 94
Dear Chuck and Alex, Despite what has been aired out publicly I hope that we may yet clear things up privately. (There's hope: just refer to Beaman vs Mahon) I shall look to contact you soon. Best, Mathew
post #59 of 94
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 (There's hope: just refer to Beaman vs Mahon)
I'm confused about all these charges of libel, and if that's why lisapop was banned from this forum. After all, it seems Beaman himself made libelous accusations against Mahon when he accused Mahon of lying about his credentials and that Mahon was a hack.
post #60 of 94
Matthew - I look forward to hearing from you, was very sad and confused when I saw your post. Christian: Darren certainly stuck his foot well down his own throat on that one and apologized and it seems a few folks will never let him forget it. Thomas Mahon evidently has better things to do as evidenced by what he said to me on the matter which is posted below. The odd thing is why so many folks who were not involved are so desperate to re-ignite the flame war which can do nothing but hurt both of these guys who've asked that it be dropped. So the question is - why do those unaffected so desperately wish to endlessly refight a battle long ended? In Thomas' own words: __ Dear Charles, The next time I see Darren, I hope we'll have a beer and a good laugh about this. It's definately dropped with me. Things like this don't have a place in my mind. You can quote me on that. Take care, Tom.
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