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post #16 of 30
1/29/09 at 4:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gomestar View Post
that "last part" is indeed correct. If chlorine bleach is used to sterilize the corks, cork taint can be triggered. It's more complex than that, but that's a start.

Yeah, I hear they've moved to using peroxide instead. I think it also builds up on cork trees from certain pesticides. The molecule itself is TCA, but don't ask me to expand that. Someone can Google it for the full molecule. If I remember right, we are very sensitive to it, and can detect it at under 10 part per trillion (yes, trillion, not billion). I could be wrong though.

I've heard as many as 10% of wines are corked, to under 1%. I think last year, I ran into two bottles that were corked, out of over 200. Oh, both were screw caps too.
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post #17 of 30
1/29/09 at 4:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post
Yeah, I hear they've moved to using peroxide instead. I think it also builds up on cork trees from certain pesticides. The molecule itself is TCA, but don't ask me to expand that. Someone can Google it for the full molecule. If I remember right, we are very sensitive to it, and can detect it at under 10 part per trillion (yes, trillion, not billion). I could be wrong though.

I've heard as many as 10% of wines are corked, to under 1%. I think last year, I ran into two bottles that were corked, out of over 200. Oh, both were screw caps too.

2,4,6-trichloroanisol
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post #18 of 30
1/29/09 at 4:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post
Yeah, I hear they've moved to using peroxide instead. I think it also builds up on cork trees from certain pesticides. The molecule itself is TCA, but don't ask me to expand that. Someone can Google it for the full molecule. If I remember right, we are very sensitive to it, and can detect it at under 10 part per trillion (yes, trillion, not billion). I could be wrong though.

I've heard as many as 10% of wines are corked, to under 1%. I think last year, I ran into two bottles that were corked, out of over 200. Oh, both were screw caps too.

peroxide has been in use more and you are rigth about the cork tree pesticides as well. It can also form in production with poor pipes, etc. There are many places where TCA (or, more bluntly, trichloroanisole ... sp?) can develop and then thrive to affect the wine.

Realisitically, I'd say around 5-6% of wines are infected, though maybe >1% are detected by the average consumer and 2-3% are detected by the avid drinker.

In my wine class, my professor took some scientific grade trichloroanisole and put a few drop in a jug of wine, and then gave us a glass so we could pick up on the odor. I'll never forget that odor.
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post #19 of 30
1/29/09 at 6:55pm
What a douchebag... of all the pointless things to do, why would he think that would impress anyone?

this deserves a picture... waiter with unimpressed face and top in hand "corked you say?"
EPIC FAIL!
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post #20 of 30
1/29/09 at 6:56pm
double post, sorry... :/
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post #21 of 30
1/29/09 at 8:38pm
so, can a screw-top wine go bad?
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post #22 of 30
1/29/09 at 8:45pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarmac View Post
so, can a screw-top wine go bad?

Supposedly it keeps wine fresher. It's still possible to 'go bad', but it won't be corked unless someone is dumping TCA in the wine.
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post #23 of 30
1/29/09 at 8:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarmac View Post
so, can a screw-top wine go bad?
Wines can be contaminated before they are bottled with TCA (2,4,6-trichloroanisole as mentioned earlier), so this guy might either REALLY know what he's talking about, or be a total moron. I'm betting the latter, but maybe you all shouldn't be so judgmental so quickly.
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post #24 of 30
1/29/09 at 8:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LVoer View Post
Wines can be contaminated before they are bottled with TCA (2,4,6-trichloroanisole as mentioned earlier), so this guy might either REALLY know what he's talking about, or be a total moron. I'm betting the latter, but maybe you all shouldn't be so judgmental so quickly.

Well this no longer makes this thread that funny. The tables may be turned and in fact it could the waiter that is now the douche.
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post #25 of 30
1/29/09 at 8:52pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by appolyon View Post
Well this no longer makes this thread that funny. The tables may be turned and in fact it could the waiter that is now the douche.

No, the guy was a douchebag. Trust me.
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post #26 of 30
1/29/09 at 8:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LVoer View Post
Wines can be contaminated before they are bottled with TCA (2,4,6-trichloroanisole as mentioned earlier), so this guy might either REALLY know what he's talking about, or be a total moron. I'm betting the latter, but maybe you all shouldn't be so judgmental so quickly.

however, because the source of TCA wouldn't have been the bottle or the cork itself, the entire batch would have been contaminated and thus not released or recalled by the distributor.
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post #27 of 30
1/29/09 at 8:54pm
Considering the bottle is likely a $30 or less type, I am confident the douche was indeed bagging. But just curious.

Btw, I have had wine which had gone bad once, at an italian restaurant. We were in a big group and it took us a long time to decide to bring it up.

So, there might be a lot of people bullshitting and trying to say a bottle is corked when it isn't, but I think more people drink corked wine and not realize it.
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post #28 of 30
1/29/09 at 9:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gomestar View Post
however, because the source of TCA wouldn't have been the bottle or the cork itself, the entire batch would have been contaminated and thus not released or recalled by the distributor.

A "batch" of wine isn't kept in one big tub ready to be bottled. It could occur while being aged in oak barrels, and not every barrel is sampled individually before being bottled.

I'm not really going to argue about this. I realize the odds of this are slim, I'm just pointing out that it's possible.
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post #29 of 30
1/29/09 at 10:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LVoer View Post
A "batch" of wine isn't kept in one big tub ready to be bottled. It could occur while being aged in oak barrels, and not every barrel is sampled individually before being bottled.

I'm not really going to argue about this. I realize the odds of this are slim, I'm just pointing out that it's possible.

I know what you mean and there's no need to debate, but consider this: although fine wine is aged individually in oak barrels (inexpensive wine is aged in big vats with oak chips), the barrels are combined to make the final blend (or cuvee). This provides consistency from bottle to bottle and allows the winemaker to alter the final product. If you can afford the $800/barrel, you're likely putting in enough time into the process to sample each one for consistency. The best winemakers combine certain barrels (and exclude others) for their final blend.

Most inexpensive wines are made in huge technologically advanced tubs, the biggest are hundreds if not thousands of gallons.

In the end, there is a chance that it is possible, though the odds are excruciatingly low.
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post #30 of 30
1/30/09 at 2:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon View Post
Well at least the guy thought it was corked. It`s even worse when people return the bottle just because they think the wine is not good enough for them.

Since we are on the topic of corked wines...how many bottles have you encountered that were corked?

Maybe I am lucky, but I have only encountered 1 corked bottle so far. I suspect I have opened many bottles that were not at their true potential though (not age, but condition).

I can't stand when people think they can just choose a wine from the list and then send it back if they are not happy with it. I had someone who had some obvious buyers remorse after ordering a bottle of a 1990 Bertani Amarone. After tasting it he tried to send it back saying, "Eh...I'm not happy with it. Take it back." Good luck with that.

My family owns a restaurant and we through massive amounts of wine. For the 3.5 years that I have been working there I can count on one hand the number of corked bottles of wine I have come across. There have been occasions when people have claimed wine was "corked" and there was nothing wrong with it at all. After myself, the sommoleir, or a manager tasted it and gave them a little education they agreed that it wasnt.
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