Espresso Maker

[Dmax]

Originally Posted by gdl203

My cube is pretty noisy - I don't know if they all are but I suspect that it comes with the compressor and is unavoidable. I would assume that the DeLonghi Nespresso machine makes the same noise as the DeLonghi non-Nespresso

Most machines with a refillable tank are going to be a little noisy due to the vibration pumps they use. You only start to see quieter machines once you go up to plumbed in machines which use rotary pumps.

Originally Posted by gomestar

no, there are plenty of manual options for under $500. Browse around Amazon. Also figure $50 for a good grinder.

I think at least $100 for an entry level espresso grinder from Capresso or Baratza.

Originally Posted by gomestar

sometimes you can do both. My machine does the full manual and ESE pods.

All machines which can use ground coffee (this excludes proprietary pod models like Nespresso) should be able to use ESE pods.

[Dmax]

Originally Posted by gomestar

+1 on the coffee people. I've commented on it before that I think some of the hard core coffee people are WAY more pretentious than the wine people. Compare some of the posts in this thread to the wine thread.

Originally Posted by Fuuma

I feel the same way about coffee geeks as I do about audiophiles, nothing wrong with it in theory but a large % of them are insanely annoying and shortsighted about their own passion. In other words from what I've seen of your posts I'd guess you're fine, just like you make a reasonable watchophile or whatever they're called. The amount of crazies is just a major turnoff. There are hobbies that attract people stuck in their anal phase and coffee is one of them, probably because it's not supposed to be a hobby.

Anyone who has over a thousand of posts on the Styleforum has lost their right to call other people pretentious. That goes double for people who read a lot of "Modern French Philosophy".

[BB1]

Originally Posted by gomestar

I have never heard of buying a super automatic machine for cost savings. How much coffee would you have to drink for a mid-level super automatic machine (say the $1,300 DeLonghi, far cheaper than the $4,000 high-end machines) to pay itself off?? I mean we're looking at well over 2,100 individual Nespresso shots ($1300 - $250 for Nespresso machine / 0.49 cost per Nespresso pod). The number goes higher when you figure in the cost coffee beans. You'll break even at 6 shots a day, every day, for one year. If you drink it every other day, we're looking at well over a decade to break even.

And this is assuming the capsules contain mediocre coffee, which I (and others) have found is not the case.

I paid $1000 for the Bosch B30 about 2 years ago. The brew counter on it currently reads 3169.

Coffee cost with regular beans...
(3169 cups) * (1/45 lbs/cups) * (10 $/lbs) = $704

But with Netpresso pods my coffee cost would have been....
0.49 * 3169 = $1552

2 year total cost....
Bosch: $1000 + $704 = $1704
Netpresso: $250 + 1552 = $1802

So in my specific case, the more expensive machine has worked in my favor in less than 2 years. Plus I got to drink better quality coffee. But I probably drink far more than most people.

Even if I drank less, I would probably still buy the super automatic. The ability to have fun trying different coffee beans from local roasters is well worth the added cost. I philosophically cannot in good conscience buy into a captive system utilizing proprietary "pods".

Several of the coffee forums I've read say the Netpresso pod quality is just merely ok, but nothing to get excited about. You don't honestly expect a mass marketed brand like Nestle to provide awesome quality coffee?! That would be like expecting to find exciting designs and top quality clothing at Gap or Banana Republic.

[gdl203]

You should re-run the numbs factoring in time value of money and show a net present value of each option. What is your cost of capital?

BTW, you keep saying that you drink better quality coffee but we all know that's not accurate.

We were also talking about Nespresso - I can't speak for Netpresso.

[BB1]

Originally Posted by gdl203

You should re-run the numbs factoring in time value of money and show a net present value of each option. What is your cost of capital?

BTW, you keep saying that you drink better quality coffee but we all know that's not accurate.

We were also talking about Nespresso - I can't speak for Netpresso.

Sorry if I didn't get the Nestle(tm) Nespresso(tm) name correct. I meant the same thing!

I've tried quite a few of the beans reviewed on Coffee Review and found the reviews to be reliable. They claim to use blind tasting for their assessments, which appears to be true since occasionally a poorly thought of brand will score surprisingly high. Here are their Nespresso reviews...

http://www.coffeereview.com/allrevie...find=nespresso

Nespresso gets very respectable scores! However, all the beans I buy these days receive higher scores on this site than any of these Nespresso reviews. Also note how the review for the light roast (my personal preference) Nespresso is ranked the lowest. It is very unusual for a lighter roast mass market brand to ever score well since they are not able to mask the flavor of the cheaper beans as easily as would be possible with a darker roast.

Your statement that I don't drink higher quality coffee than that provided by Nespresso is laughable. What do you base this statement on? Do you honestly believe pre-ground beans from Nestle rank among the best in the marketplace? A lot of flavor is lost when you pre-grind the beans without using them right away. Your statements about coffee quality are laughable and shows complete ignorance, regardless of the merits of Nespresso (which sounds like an ok system for what it is).

[iammatt]

I've had better espressos than the ones I make from Nespresso, but it is a bit time intensive to get myself to Rome or Naples, and I sure as hell haven't had any better outside those two places. Coffee snobs crack me up, and not much aging happens in vacuum sealed containers. Also, it isn't so much the quality of the raw bean as the quality of the blend, and the consistency of taste.

[gomestar]

Originally Posted by iammatt

I've had better espressos than the ones I make from Nespresso, but it is a bit time intensive to get myself to Rome or Naples

Drool. When I visited my gf when she was living in Rome (I think my last 10 posts have all had 'my gf' in them ... this is what happens when you're a boring ass numbers person like me), I would spend an incredible amount of time at the cafes at Via Argentina where she worked and in Trastevere where she lived.

Coffee was superb but the prices were even better - I always paid about 70 eurocents for espresso and 90 eurocents for cappuccino.

I'd give anything to return right now

[BB1]

I've been drinking this Ethiopian one a lot lately....

http://www.coffeereview.com/review.cfm?ID=1749

It is about $13 lb when you buy 5 lbs at once which is a great deal! It has INTENSE berry flavors that no coffee I've had in the Nespresso score range has ever come close to matching.

I'm not a coffee snob. The fact that I use a super automatic machine should tell you that! However, I've tried a LOT of different beans with my machine and seen what a huge difference there can be between various products. And also how uncommon it is to get something that will taste amazing. But with a closed system like Nespresso you'd never be able to learn or experience this.

[BB1]

Originally Posted by iammatt

Also, it isn't so much the quality of the raw bean as the quality of the blend, and the consistency of taste.

Sure, but I drink mostly single origin. In which case there is no blend. That's what I was thinking of when I made my comment.

Dark roasting is used hide the true flavor of the beans in a lot of cheaper coffees, this is a fact. It is also used for marketing purposes since many people mistakenly believe a dark roast means "strong coffee" with lots caffeine.

I looked through the whole bean coffee selection at a local grocery store recently. The had easily 100 types to choose from. I could not locate a single product on the entire shelf that claimed it was a light roast!! Everything said dark roast, french roast, or did not specify. And there was only a single item that said medium roast.

[Fuuma]

Originally Posted by Dmax

Anyone who has over a thousand of posts on the Styleforum has lost their right to call other people pretentious. That goes double for people who read a lot of "Modern French Philosophy".

I didn't use the word pretentious so why are you saying that? Are you saying making espresso is on the same level as modern philosophy? Please....

[sfnapolifan]

Originally Posted by iammatt

I've had better espressos than the ones I make from Nespresso, but it is a bit time intensive to get myself to Rome or Naples, and I sure as hell haven't had any better outside those two places. Coffee snobs crack me up, and not much aging happens in vacuum sealed containers. Also, it isn't so much the quality of the raw bean as the quality of the blend, and the consistency of taste.

never been to blue bottle? i think they have the coffee pods beat.

[Dmax]

Originally Posted by Fuuma

I didn't use the word pretentious so why are you saying that? Are you saying making espresso is on the same level as modern philosophy? Please....

Didn't mean to put words in you mouth. I guess you didn't say "pretentious" but you certainly meant to denigrate the effort other people put into finding the cup of coffee up to their taste standards.

I wish people would stop with the stupid passive agressive: "thems annoying coffee geeks" and just reply to a person directly.

The whole argument that someone who is willing to go a step farther than you looking for a better cup of coffee, beer, wine, cheese or other food item is somehow your mental inferior, creepy, myopic, anal retentive crazies is getting very tired.

[Dmax]

Originally Posted by iammatt

I've had better espressos than the ones I make from Nespresso, but it is a bit time intensive to get myself to Rome or Naples, and I sure as hell haven't had any better outside those two places. Coffee snobs crack me up, and not much aging happens in vacuum sealed containers. Also, it isn't so much the quality of the raw bean as the quality of the blend, and the consistency of taste.

Since you are in SF try Blue Bottle next to Mission and Fifth as already mentioned. Try both single origin and the blended shots. Get a cappuccino for the Mrs.

Vacuum containers are good but once the bean is roasted the essential oils, which contain thousands of flavor components start to evaporate, hence the one way valves you find on most coffee bags. If there is no one way valve it means the people selling you the coffee waited a few days for the coffee to "de-gass" and get even staler before packaging it.

Not sure what you meant by "constistency of taste", but the quality of the beans is more important than how you blend them. You can't take 3 parts of Vietnamese Robusta and 2 parts of dirt dried Java and make something great.

[A Y]

Bluebottle also has a kiosk --- it looks like someone converted their garage into a coffeeshop --- near the opera house at 315 Linden. I've never had their espresso, only their mocha, but it is excellent.

--Andre

[saint]

Originally Posted by Fuuma

I feel the same way about coffee geeks as I do about audiophiles, nothing wrong with it in theory but a large % of them are insanely annoying and shortsighted about their own passion. In other words from what I've seen of your posts I'd guess you're fine, just like you make a reasonable watchophile or whatever they're called. The amount of crazies is just a major turnoff. There are hobbies that attract people stuck in their anal phase and coffee is one of them, probably because it's not supposed to be a hobby.

Like audiophiles, coffee geeks are a useful segment of society. They put out huge amounts of posts discussing in minute detail every product, in their particular area of interest, out there. What's not to like? You can get tons of info with little effort and make an informed decision after spending a few minutes digesting the reviews and the counter-posts.